Used HP Tuners for new 60# Injectors...AFR is jacked up!
01-02-2007, 10:44 AM
#1
Used HP Tuners for new 60# Injectors...AFR is jacked up! I used the spreadsheet in the sticky and typed in 60 into the injector rated flow rate. I left the other values the same. I used the information at the bottom for the "Injector Flow" (lbs/hr). It seemed high IMO...69s upto 75s going from 0-80. I put it in, the car started just fine...but you could just smell the unburned fuel! My AEM WB O2 said I was in the extremely low 10s as an AFR.
I left the car warm up knowing that they don't start working properly until they're nice and hot. My ECT is now up to the 180s and the car has been running for probably 10 minutes...afr is still buried.
I take it for a test drive and notice that at 60mph in 5th or 6th gear...any gear really, I'm right at my target AFR...anywhere from 14.4-15.4 at PT. I dropped a couple of gears and go WOT, it drops down to about 13.1 to 13.2 and holds steady. That's great!!
HOWEVER, I let off the gas pedal and my AFR immeadiately gets buried into the 10s. I give it a little bit of gas, it shoots up into the 17s for a split second and then goes back to the target AFR.
When I pull the car out of gear or push the clutch in, same thing...AFR is buried into the 10s.
So basically, at idle or during deceleration, I'm running insanely rich. Would like some guidance or insight please!!
FYI, I installed new T6 plugs yesterday with a .030 gap , the injectors and the patriot dual springs. Holy crap that was a LOOONNNGGGG DAY
. From 10:30am till 8:30pm with about only an hour break the whole time! Damn you number 8 cylinder...DAMN YOU!!!!
I left the car warm up knowing that they don't start working properly until they're nice and hot. My ECT is now up to the 180s and the car has been running for probably 10 minutes...afr is still buried.
I take it for a test drive and notice that at 60mph in 5th or 6th gear...any gear really, I'm right at my target AFR...anywhere from 14.4-15.4 at PT. I dropped a couple of gears and go WOT, it drops down to about 13.1 to 13.2 and holds steady. That's great!!
HOWEVER, I let off the gas pedal and my AFR immeadiately gets buried into the 10s. I give it a little bit of gas, it shoots up into the 17s for a split second and then goes back to the target AFR.
When I pull the car out of gear or push the clutch in, same thing...AFR is buried into the 10s.
So basically, at idle or during deceleration, I'm running insanely rich. Would like some guidance or insight please!!
FYI, I installed new T6 plugs yesterday with a .030 gap , the injectors and the patriot dual springs. Holy crap that was a LOOONNNGGGG DAY
. From 10:30am till 8:30pm with about only an hour break the whole time! Damn you number 8 cylinder...DAMN YOU!!!! 
01-02-2007, 10:58 AM
#2
Seems like most have to mess with
Injector offset
short pulse limit
short pulse adder
Min injector pulse
etc., once you go to that large of an injector to get them to idle & decel in the range you want. Basically the min. pulse thats allowed in the stock config is still too much fuel being spit out by the injectors to get you to your desired of 14.6-14.7:1 at idle...at part throttle its a non issue, just idle & decel in most cases.
Injector offset
short pulse limit
short pulse adder
Min injector pulse
etc., once you go to that large of an injector to get them to idle & decel in the range you want. Basically the min. pulse thats allowed in the stock config is still too much fuel being spit out by the injectors to get you to your desired of 14.6-14.7:1 at idle...at part throttle its a non issue, just idle & decel in most cases.
01-02-2007, 11:12 AM
#4
58psi at the rails and 43.5psi injector rated fuel pressure right?
Well, I compared a Nelson Performance Tune within HPT for a turbo tune using 42# injectors. At 42#, the spreadsheet is about 4-6 points higher than what the Nelson tune had in there. They basically added 17.98 to each of the stock values and left it at that. From what I could tell, no other injector values where changed in the Nelson tune...
I didn't mess with any other values because I wanted to get y'alls opinions first since I didn't know what I was doing. At least the cars runs and is very drivable right?
Well, I compared a Nelson Performance Tune within HPT for a turbo tune using 42# injectors. At 42#, the spreadsheet is about 4-6 points higher than what the Nelson tune had in there. They basically added 17.98 to each of the stock values and left it at that. From what I could tell, no other injector values where changed in the Nelson tune...
I didn't mess with any other values because I wanted to get y'alls opinions first since I didn't know what I was doing. At least the cars runs and is very drivable right?
01-02-2007, 01:14 PM
#6
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I have 60 lb Motrons in my car, and I recall the IFR being around 69. Also, from what I've learned with Megas Squirt, you want your inj pulse width around 1.7-2.2mS at idle. (or at least that's where my car idles best)
01-02-2007, 01:23 PM
#7
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
I have 60 lb Motrons in my car, and I recall the IFR being around 69. Also, from what I've learned with Megas Squirt, you want your inj pulse width around 1.7-2.2mS at idle. (or at least that's where my car idles best)
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01-02-2007, 08:50 PM
#9
I'm going to mess with the injector pulses...we'll see if that helps. I'll try it in the morning. I called TRT today and they said with a couple of days notice, they'll tune my car for a VERY good price IMO. So, I'll probably borrow a car from my Dad until I get everything up and running right via TRT. The turbo and intercooler go on this coming weekend...everything else is done 
!!
!!
01-03-2007, 12:03 AM
#10
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I'm going to tell you right now you need to log your injector pulse width. if it is 1 or less or close to 1 like 1.2 or 1.1 something of that sort... you ain't gettin no further(leaner) at idle. you do realize that those 60#ers are rated @43.5psi and that they are actually more like 69#/hr injectors??
raise your idle to like 900 (use HPTuners to set the idle) and watch your airflow and your AFR from your wideband. raise it to 950 and see what its at
i tried the 60's but i don't have enough air consumption (air gettin into the cylinders) to use the amount of injectors those are.
BUT i raised my idle to 950rpm (which is high..and I wouldn't do) and I got to watch the AFR go to 14.4~14.0 and it idled a lot better.
I'm not saying these injectors are too big, I'm not saying they aren't going to work. I"m just telling you that below a 1ms or around that pulse width you ain't gettin no more outa them. I really don't care what other ppl think on this board about that either, cuz people have told me my 42#ers weren't going to be enough for my STS @5psi.... i'm at 68% duty cycle @ 11.6 AFR
proof and the operation of things don't lie. they operate within percentages of their manufactured design, some go lower some go higher.
under the fuel and injection tab you will find a sticky that is :
Please note:
Most injectors will max out at 80% duty cycle and this is the accepted industry standard.
I did not make this up! This is from SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers.
The website article is http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm
and of course the website is http://www.rceng.com
they can make you anywhere from the 28.8lb/hr injectors to 50# injectors and all of these are rated @43.5psi (i think)
you might be able to hack away at the IFR table (or other tables) and get it to work.... if you do that would be good as you won't have to change injectors again.... lol.
raise your idle to like 900 (use HPTuners to set the idle) and watch your airflow and your AFR from your wideband. raise it to 950 and see what its at
i tried the 60's but i don't have enough air consumption (air gettin into the cylinders) to use the amount of injectors those are.
BUT i raised my idle to 950rpm (which is high..and I wouldn't do) and I got to watch the AFR go to 14.4~14.0 and it idled a lot better.
I'm not saying these injectors are too big, I'm not saying they aren't going to work. I"m just telling you that below a 1ms or around that pulse width you ain't gettin no more outa them. I really don't care what other ppl think on this board about that either, cuz people have told me my 42#ers weren't going to be enough for my STS @5psi.... i'm at 68% duty cycle @ 11.6 AFR
proof and the operation of things don't lie. they operate within percentages of their manufactured design, some go lower some go higher.
under the fuel and injection tab you will find a sticky that is :
Please note:
Most injectors will max out at 80% duty cycle and this is the accepted industry standard.
I did not make this up! This is from SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers.
The website article is http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm
and of course the website is http://www.rceng.com
they can make you anywhere from the 28.8lb/hr injectors to 50# injectors and all of these are rated @43.5psi (i think)
you might be able to hack away at the IFR table (or other tables) and get it to work.... if you do that would be good as you won't have to change injectors again.... lol.
Last edited by ZL1Killa; 01-03-2007 at 12:16 AM.
01-03-2007, 04:20 PM
#12
Well, I'm parking the car as of tonight. The turbo goes on this weekend and then I'm taking it to TRT once it's ready to go. They'll tune it and I'm sure they'll tune it right compensating for the 60#'s at idle and all the way through the powerband. I messed around with the pulse width but saw no results. My wideband only goes down to 10:1 AFR...and it buries it there at idle...so who knows what it's actually at
I just spent hours putting the new spark plugs in and a couple hundred on the wideband. I'm not going to drive it like this and chance fouling a plug or worse...my precious wideband/regular O2s. I can borrow a car until it's ready to go. TRT said they may even have the car for a day or two in order to get it right??...
It may be until after MLK Jr Day...but I've lived this long without FI, I can stand a couple more weeks
I just spent hours putting the new spark plugs in and a couple hundred on the wideband. I'm not going to drive it like this and chance fouling a plug or worse...my precious wideband/regular O2s. I can borrow a car until it's ready to go. TRT said they may even have the car for a day or two in order to get it right??...
It may be until after MLK Jr Day...but I've lived this long without FI, I can stand a couple more weeks
