Project V6 Firebird
05-02-2011, 11:04 AM
#102
Although I respect your input, I've heard it many times. I get more respect for doing this build than negative feedback. I didn't build this to be some speed demon, it was to build my first engine and get some good lessons out of the way. This car was a learning experience in many many ways. The next build will be a bit different and a little more advanced (I.E. Twin turbo DI V6 from a 5th gen Camaro and the car will get resprayed).
I can take the experience gained from this build and use it for the rest of my life on any other project I come across. I have a stronger understanding of things that work compared to people that just throw money at their car and let a shop do all the work without fully understanding their car.
I never expect to sell this car, so value is a moot point. It has 140K miles on it, so it probably wouldn't have garnished $2K at trade in anywhere compared to when I paid 12K for it in 2002
I never wanted something with LSx speed/power, if I did I would have sold the car and gotten something else like a Corvette instead of another F-body.
There is a mantra in the V6 community that was started by one that had run 12's essentially cam only in his V6 bird:
"Any ***hole can make a V8 fast."
Am I calling V8 owners that? No, not at all. It just points out that yes, making power with V8's can be incredibly easy. Taking a V6 to "fast" power output requires a lot of thought, research and a good bit of grief. But in the end, the knowledge and experience gathered puts you into a close knit group of people in the community that actually have busted knuckles and grease under their finger nails. We all understand eachother pretty well, even if our cars are all inherently different.
We're an odd bunch, the guys that mod/race the V6's. But we never expect handouts and we never expect things to come easy.
The nice thing about this car? Most of the money went into suspension and not exactly a whole lot into parts for the engine. Most of this stuff can be transferred into a V8 car if I so desire in the future, but I still don't have that desire.
I'd rather do an LSx swap into my old 5 series BMW. Like I said, I'm part of an odd bunch
I know some of you will probably rip me for my standpoint, I don't make fun of V8's, and started modding the V6 in my car knowing full and well that it wasn't going to be a powerhouse. So keep in mind, I know what I'm doing and pick my battles accordingly.
I can take the experience gained from this build and use it for the rest of my life on any other project I come across. I have a stronger understanding of things that work compared to people that just throw money at their car and let a shop do all the work without fully understanding their car.
I never expect to sell this car, so value is a moot point. It has 140K miles on it, so it probably wouldn't have garnished $2K at trade in anywhere compared to when I paid 12K for it in 2002
I never wanted something with LSx speed/power, if I did I would have sold the car and gotten something else like a Corvette instead of another F-body.
There is a mantra in the V6 community that was started by one that had run 12's essentially cam only in his V6 bird:
"Any ***hole can make a V8 fast."
Am I calling V8 owners that? No, not at all. It just points out that yes, making power with V8's can be incredibly easy. Taking a V6 to "fast" power output requires a lot of thought, research and a good bit of grief. But in the end, the knowledge and experience gathered puts you into a close knit group of people in the community that actually have busted knuckles and grease under their finger nails. We all understand eachother pretty well, even if our cars are all inherently different.
We're an odd bunch, the guys that mod/race the V6's. But we never expect handouts and we never expect things to come easy.
The nice thing about this car? Most of the money went into suspension and not exactly a whole lot into parts for the engine. Most of this stuff can be transferred into a V8 car if I so desire in the future, but I still don't have that desire.
I'd rather do an LSx swap into my old 5 series BMW. Like I said, I'm part of an odd bunch
I know some of you will probably rip me for my standpoint, I don't make fun of V8's, and started modding the V6 in my car knowing full and well that it wasn't going to be a powerhouse. So keep in mind, I know what I'm doing and pick my battles accordingly.
05-02-2011, 04:07 PM
#103
I put about 1000 dollars in that v6 i bought in a months time........never again! If i wooood have seen ANY improvments I woood have been ok with it. Everything I tried did NOTHING to improve the performance. I just think the entire v6 platform in these later fbodies is a complete joke!
I'm not picking on you, infact I think you are trying hard but I also think you just picked the wrong platform. GM lost its minds on this one.
I'm not picking on you, infact I think you are trying hard but I also think you just picked the wrong platform. GM lost its minds on this one.
Last edited by O2Form; 05-02-2011 at 04:12 PM.
05-02-2011, 05:46 PM
#104
GM could have had something, they tested the L67 (Supercharged engine like in the GTP's) before the LS1 platform came out. Those V6's would have been headers & pulley away from nailing some good low 13's or even 12's with good tire. Blame the bean counters because the engineers always get their hands tied.
Not sure exactly what you spent 1K on the bird, but yeah, they aren't exactly an easy car to make quick.
Not sure exactly what you spent 1K on the bird, but yeah, they aren't exactly an easy car to make quick.
05-02-2011, 06:32 PM
#105
My biggest beef was the insano drive by wire throttle. Its so complicated if it ever has a problem its almost impossible to repair. Also the throttle pedal is WAY too hard to depress, my wife could hardly hold it down. Also the fuel mileage was a complete disaster, 15 mpg local! THATS IT. I did a complete sevice from top to bottom, EVERTHING got replaced. It didn't help the fuel mileage or performance. Replaced the exhaust with a well known performance system....still no change.....had it tuned.......still no change.......traded it on a nice low mileage Formula, BIG CHANGE.
05-02-2011, 08:27 PM
#110
05-02-2011, 08:29 PM
#111
Yeah sure you do...... BS I talked to plenty of guys that couldn't get over 15 local driving. Maybe 23 highway but noway local driving. I'm a GM service manager so you can't BS me.
05-02-2011, 09:13 PM
#113
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Service manager= mechanics tell you things that you relay to customers. You don't know everything. Shrike has no reason to lie about his gas mileage. I'm not a V6 guy but this is definitely a cool build. I hope you end up boosting your bird Shrike!
05-03-2011, 04:59 AM
#115
Strip times will come soon. The track closed the day I got my dyno tune due to the dust storm we were having
I do as a matter of fact get 23mpg city driving, no BS. We don't have a lot of stop and go because Lubbock is a small "metro." But it is city driving nonetheless. No BS whatsoever. I have work early in the morning so I'm on the streets at 5:30am before most people are up and I'm headed home by 2:45.
Worst MPG I saw was 16 but it was really freaking rich like 11:1 AFR
3.42's help with that matter plus I don't leadfoot this car all over the place. I'll drive it lightly and try to get it to 'verter lockout and let it cruise.
The car will be boosted with a different engine
I do as a matter of fact get 23mpg city driving, no BS. We don't have a lot of stop and go because Lubbock is a small "metro." But it is city driving nonetheless. No BS whatsoever. I have work early in the morning so I'm on the streets at 5:30am before most people are up and I'm headed home by 2:45.
Worst MPG I saw was 16 but it was really freaking rich like 11:1 AFR
3.42's help with that matter plus I don't leadfoot this car all over the place. I'll drive it lightly and try to get it to 'verter lockout and let it cruise.
The car will be boosted with a different engine
05-03-2011, 08:17 AM
#116
My 02Formula averages 23 local and 29 highway. If you are getting 23 local with your v6 you are doing alot better than anyone i've ever talked to that owned one. The v6 we owned was getting 15 local and we were driving easy and maybe 19 highway........it was a complete dog too. It was a beautiful car and in showroom condition, but dam it sounded like *** and just had no power, your foot was in it all the time. The only time that v6 had any real feel to it was flat to floor wot then it ran ok. Otherwise it was just plain flat, no character at all.
I think the entire trouble in these v6 engines are the heads, bet if someone made a decent set of heads you woooood easily see 260-275 hp.
I think the entire trouble in these v6 engines are the heads, bet if someone made a decent set of heads you woooood easily see 260-275 hp.
05-03-2011, 09:36 AM
#118
LOL I know alot more than my mechanics, I trained most of them.
05-03-2011, 11:54 AM
#120
o2form, just stop.
GF daily drives a 97 3.8, gets around 27-28 highway and around 22-24 in town. They are not dogs by any means for the years they were made. There were only a few select V6s that would be able to keep up/beat one in their time era. Hell, it is a close race with the mid 90 model Mustang GTs, that is a joke.
He loves his car and it is really cool what he is doing. I would talk to him about his car if I saw it in person for 4 hours before I spent 5 minutes on your everyday Formula, plus he is knowledgeable. He knows it isn't fast and doesn't ever expect it to be. For what it is, it runs very good... Exactly what he wanted.
And telling us you are a GM service manager..... You just COMPLETELY discredited ANYTHING you have to say about ANYTHING with Ls1's as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority know nothing but think they do, like yourself from what you have shown. There are a few out there but they are far and few between. That is not something you want to spread every chance you get on this board. That gives you ZERO credit on here because it means NOTHING.
If you liked good cars, you would like the 3.8. Do you know anything about them? They are practically bullet proof and like boost.
Also, why do you spell "would", "wooood"?
GF daily drives a 97 3.8, gets around 27-28 highway and around 22-24 in town. They are not dogs by any means for the years they were made. There were only a few select V6s that would be able to keep up/beat one in their time era. Hell, it is a close race with the mid 90 model Mustang GTs, that is a joke.
He loves his car and it is really cool what he is doing. I would talk to him about his car if I saw it in person for 4 hours before I spent 5 minutes on your everyday Formula, plus he is knowledgeable. He knows it isn't fast and doesn't ever expect it to be. For what it is, it runs very good... Exactly what he wanted.
And telling us you are a GM service manager..... You just COMPLETELY discredited ANYTHING you have to say about ANYTHING with Ls1's as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority know nothing but think they do, like yourself from what you have shown. There are a few out there but they are far and few between. That is not something you want to spread every chance you get on this board. That gives you ZERO credit on here because it means NOTHING.
If you liked good cars, you would like the 3.8. Do you know anything about them? They are practically bullet proof and like boost.
Also, why do you spell "would", "wooood"?