'97 Firebird Formula not starting
12-28-2016, 03:51 PM
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'97 Firebird Formula not starting Hello guys,
I have a '97 Firebird Formula Gen II LT1 350 that is completely stock. I had to change out the head gaskets due to a coolant leak at #7 cylinder. Lots of steam from the exhaust, I'm sure many know the routine. Had the heads checked for leaks via pressure test (none found) and had them shaved just a bit to straighten them. Brand new AC Rapidfire plugs, roller lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms (all stock). After reassembly it cranks but doesn't start. I checked for spark at the coil and at individual plug wire ends, all are good. I have fuel pressure at the relief valve on the fuel rail but it appears the injectors aren't firing. I say that because if I disconnect the intake snorkel at the filter and spray Starting Fluid in it will start off of that. I've checked to be certain I've plugged everything back in, electrical and vacuum and I'm reasonably sure I have. There are no stored error codes. The Injector fuse is good. I switched the key on and turned on the AC expecting to hear the compressor clutch click and maybe one of the 2 front fans to come on low, neither of which happened.
Can anyone shed light on what could possibly be the problem? The battery was disconnected for 2 months, bad weather, a lack of time off work (and shorter days) all conspired to slow the repair process. It isn't my only car so I'm not walking but I sure miss driving my red SuperBeast.
I have a '97 Firebird Formula Gen II LT1 350 that is completely stock. I had to change out the head gaskets due to a coolant leak at #7 cylinder. Lots of steam from the exhaust, I'm sure many know the routine. Had the heads checked for leaks via pressure test (none found) and had them shaved just a bit to straighten them. Brand new AC Rapidfire plugs, roller lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms (all stock). After reassembly it cranks but doesn't start. I checked for spark at the coil and at individual plug wire ends, all are good. I have fuel pressure at the relief valve on the fuel rail but it appears the injectors aren't firing. I say that because if I disconnect the intake snorkel at the filter and spray Starting Fluid in it will start off of that. I've checked to be certain I've plugged everything back in, electrical and vacuum and I'm reasonably sure I have. There are no stored error codes. The Injector fuse is good. I switched the key on and turned on the AC expecting to hear the compressor clutch click and maybe one of the 2 front fans to come on low, neither of which happened.
Can anyone shed light on what could possibly be the problem? The battery was disconnected for 2 months, bad weather, a lack of time off work (and shorter days) all conspired to slow the repair process. It isn't my only car so I'm not walking but I sure miss driving my red SuperBeast.
12-29-2016, 07:10 AM
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Getting injector pulses Thanks for your reply. I am getting injector pulses. I just checked using a 12v LED. I'm starting to wonder if they're stuck closed or if air is trapped behind them. If air is trapped in the fuel rail. how will I purge it?
I've decided to unbolt and lift the fuel rail leaving everything attached today. I'll slip paper underneath all injectors and give it a short crank. Fuel is explosive so I cannot keep that up understanding this is a dangerous test. I must know if the injectors are able to deliver fuel or not.
While the whole thing was apart weeks ago I did test the injectors on a bench still mounted on the fuel rail. Working indoors (and at work no less) I used a fuel pump I had running off of a big 12V Gel Cell battery. I submerged the pump's pickup sock in Rubbing Alcohol as the test fluid. I wasn't about to use gasoline like that indoors. The rail was lying upside down so all injectors pointed up at an angle. I used another 12v battery to VERY briefly activate each injector to see if they worked and if they properly shot atomized alcohol. All of them did except the one for cylinder #8 which shot a pen-stream 20 feet into the air. I replaced that one injector for not atomizing properly.
If I don't get any fuel spray on the above "paper test" I may recreate injector actuation like I did before to see if that un-sticks them. I really don't see how rubbing alcohol would cause them to get stuck in the first place. I'd think it would have a mild cleaning effect if anything. I thoroughly drained the alcohol from the rail after the test weeks ago. I'll have to go to work and get the test plug I used (if I can find it). The wires are quite long so the spark at the test battery will be a good distance away from the injector under test.
I'll report back with new test results.
I've decided to unbolt and lift the fuel rail leaving everything attached today. I'll slip paper underneath all injectors and give it a short crank. Fuel is explosive so I cannot keep that up understanding this is a dangerous test. I must know if the injectors are able to deliver fuel or not.
While the whole thing was apart weeks ago I did test the injectors on a bench still mounted on the fuel rail. Working indoors (and at work no less) I used a fuel pump I had running off of a big 12V Gel Cell battery. I submerged the pump's pickup sock in Rubbing Alcohol as the test fluid. I wasn't about to use gasoline like that indoors. The rail was lying upside down so all injectors pointed up at an angle. I used another 12v battery to VERY briefly activate each injector to see if they worked and if they properly shot atomized alcohol. All of them did except the one for cylinder #8 which shot a pen-stream 20 feet into the air. I replaced that one injector for not atomizing properly.
If I don't get any fuel spray on the above "paper test" I may recreate injector actuation like I did before to see if that un-sticks them. I really don't see how rubbing alcohol would cause them to get stuck in the first place. I'd think it would have a mild cleaning effect if anything. I thoroughly drained the alcohol from the rail after the test weeks ago. I'll have to go to work and get the test plug I used (if I can find it). The wires are quite long so the spark at the test battery will be a good distance away from the injector under test.
I'll report back with new test results.
12-29-2016, 09:49 AM
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Trashed Injectors! Thanks for your reply. I am getting injector pulses. I just checked using a 12v LED. I'm starting to wonder if they're stuck closed or if air is trapped behind them. If air is trapped in the fuel rail. how will I purge it?
I've decided to unbolt and lift the fuel rail leaving everything attached today. I'll slip paper underneath all injectors and give it a short crank. Fuel is explosive so I cannot keep that up understanding this is a dangerous test. I must know if the injectors are able to deliver fuel or not.
While the whole thing was apart weeks ago I did test the injectors on a bench still mounted on the fuel rail. Working indoors (and at work no less) I used a fuel pump I had running off of a big 12V Gel Cell battery. I submerged the pump's pickup sock in Rubbing Alcohol as the test fluid. I wasn't about to use gasoline like that indoors. The rail was lying upside down so all injectors pointed up at an angle. I used another 12v battery to VERY briefly activate each injector to see if they worked and if they properly shot atomized alcohol. All of them did except the one for cylinder #8 which shot a pen-stream 20 feet into the air. I replaced that one injector for not atomizing properly.
If I don't get any fuel spray on the above "paper test" I may recreate injector actuation like I did before to see if that un-sticks them. I really don't see how rubbing alcohol would cause them to get stuck in the first place. I'd think it would have a mild cleaning effect if anything. I thoroughly drained the alcohol from the rail after the test weeks ago. I'll have to go to work and get the test plug I used (if I can find it). The wires are quite long so the spark at the test battery will be a good distance away from the injector under test.
I'll report back with new test results.
I've decided to unbolt and lift the fuel rail leaving everything attached today. I'll slip paper underneath all injectors and give it a short crank. Fuel is explosive so I cannot keep that up understanding this is a dangerous test. I must know if the injectors are able to deliver fuel or not.
While the whole thing was apart weeks ago I did test the injectors on a bench still mounted on the fuel rail. Working indoors (and at work no less) I used a fuel pump I had running off of a big 12V Gel Cell battery. I submerged the pump's pickup sock in Rubbing Alcohol as the test fluid. I wasn't about to use gasoline like that indoors. The rail was lying upside down so all injectors pointed up at an angle. I used another 12v battery to VERY briefly activate each injector to see if they worked and if they properly shot atomized alcohol. All of them did except the one for cylinder #8 which shot a pen-stream 20 feet into the air. I replaced that one injector for not atomizing properly.
If I don't get any fuel spray on the above "paper test" I may recreate injector actuation like I did before to see if that un-sticks them. I really don't see how rubbing alcohol would cause them to get stuck in the first place. I'd think it would have a mild cleaning effect if anything. I thoroughly drained the alcohol from the rail after the test weeks ago. I'll have to go to work and get the test plug I used (if I can find it). The wires are quite long so the spark at the test battery will be a good distance away from the injector under test.
I'll report back with new test results.
The alcohol test may have been Ok if the injectors went right back into service. Letting them sit for weeks was enough time to do them in. I hope my hard-learned lesson helps someone else learn what NOT to do to injectors.