Is the 4th gen still competitive in AutoX?
03-20-2017, 11:12 AM
#61
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If you are trying to have a nationally competitive car a vette in AS/SSR will probably cost less in the long run vs a fully developed ESP f-body. My C5Z has been cheaper and so may less headaches like hubs and such.
03-20-2017, 11:47 AM
#62
But now that Jim has the adapters and XTrakers exist, you would have had a lot less headache if you were getting into a Fbody NOW.
It would be nice to see a cost breakdown between a C5 and Fbody. C5 will cost more for every mod you do (shocks/springs) than the Fbody. But the Fbody will need ~$1000+ in adapters/hubs to be reliable alone. Yet the C5 will cost you possible 3x more than the Fbody to buy (again, average cost of cars with a raceable Fbody in the $5k-$10K and Vette $15-$20K).
A fairly stock C5 with with full exhaust/tune and a tire upgrade that costs $17K to buy may be similar to a Fbody with:
Full exhaust/tune
Shocks/springs/swaybars
Watts link (and TA?)
differential
Front hubs and adapters
wheel/tire upgrade to run 18x10.5 +longer studs +spacers
purchase price ~$7K
And at the end of the day if you put them up against each other, I suspect Vette may come out on top strictly speaking raw times. But now add to the Vette a full delrin bushing set, upgraded shocks/springs (not JRi/Penske) and swaybars the Vette gets better.
It would be nice to see a cost breakdown between a C5 and Fbody. C5 will cost more for every mod you do (shocks/springs) than the Fbody. But the Fbody will need ~$1000+ in adapters/hubs to be reliable alone. Yet the C5 will cost you possible 3x more than the Fbody to buy (again, average cost of cars with a raceable Fbody in the $5k-$10K and Vette $15-$20K).
A fairly stock C5 with with full exhaust/tune and a tire upgrade that costs $17K to buy may be similar to a Fbody with:
Full exhaust/tune
Shocks/springs/swaybars
Watts link (and TA?)
differential
Front hubs and adapters
wheel/tire upgrade to run 18x10.5 +longer studs +spacers
purchase price ~$7K
And at the end of the day if you put them up against each other, I suspect Vette may come out on top strictly speaking raw times. But now add to the Vette a full delrin bushing set, upgraded shocks/springs (not JRi/Penske) and swaybars the Vette gets better.
03-20-2017, 01:52 PM
#64
Well it's always cheaper to buy than to build, but my point is you can spend all that money on a Fbody and still be behind a more stock C5/C6 in raw times.
Devin, you have a well sorted Fbody with some high end shocks...how do your times compare to a similar driver in a C6/C6 with basic wheel/tire upgrade? Next question, with all the money you have into the car, why not go Vette?
Devin, you have a well sorted Fbody with some high end shocks...how do your times compare to a similar driver in a C6/C6 with basic wheel/tire upgrade? Next question, with all the money you have into the car, why not go Vette?
03-20-2017, 02:14 PM
#65
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SCCA and some of the other bodies got American Sedan (Mostly Mustangs and camaros) going a few years back,, it started to grow really fast then they made a few rule changes , opened it up and now competitive car is north of $35K 
Same crap that happened with spec miata, to be competitive its a big investment.. Pro-3 Pro-E46 have done a better job keeping the rules to a stock set of parts so its driver not $$ as much..
Same crap that happened with spec miata, to be competitive its a big investment.. Pro-3 Pro-E46 have done a better job keeping the rules to a stock set of parts so its driver not $$ as much..
03-20-2017, 04:12 PM
#66
Well it's always cheaper to buy than to build, but my point is you can spend all that money on a Fbody and still be behind a more stock C5/C6 in raw times.
Devin, you have a well sorted Fbody with some high end shocks...how do your times compare to a similar driver in a C6/C6 with basic wheel/tire upgrade? Next question, with all the money you have into the car, why not go Vette?
Devin, you have a well sorted Fbody with some high end shocks...how do your times compare to a similar driver in a C6/C6 with basic wheel/tire upgrade? Next question, with all the money you have into the car, why not go Vette?
ESP and SSR cars run basically the same times, with the edge going to SSR. That there isn't much that appeals to me class wise once you start going into SP/P with a Corvette.
03-23-2017, 12:23 PM
#67
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That's the point, there is no building a C5/C6 for AS or SSR. Just bolt on some half decent shocks, a front bar, catback and wheels/tires. I like tinkering more and got bored with the lack of modifications in street.
ESP and SSR cars run basically the same times, with the edge going to SSR. That there isn't much that appeals to me class wise once you start going into SP/P with a Corvette.
ESP and SSR cars run basically the same times, with the edge going to SSR. That there isn't much that appeals to me class wise once you start going into SP/P with a Corvette.
SSR 0.847 vs ESP 0.837
The vette is slightly faster but for me the competition in SSR/AS has some legendary names to compete against..... Strano, Daddio etc. Also I miss my camaro a lot if I could have both I would, but I live in Boston so nope.
03-23-2017, 01:05 PM
#68
I agree on the civil part, but I can currently drive home in the Camaro with the AC on (and by AC I mean somewhat cool air due to it being a 95 LOL but I bought a trailer so no need.)
I never looked at it in terms of PAX because I'm not too interested in those times, but interesting to see how close the handicaps are. I'm not overly competitive from a classing/national event standpoint. I race to have fun and mod however I please...put me in whatever class you want IMO.
I think we can all agree that the Fbody can be made/is still competitive within the realm of ESP classing and would be similar to a AS C5...
But if you toss everything but the kitchen sink at either car, the C5 has more potential and in raw times would come out on top.
I guess the "easy button" is the C5 on all accounts, plenty of aftermarket and more potential while performing the task at hand a little easier than the Fbody.
Like always, depends on how you want to race. Very competitive within a class and go to national events or wanting overall fastest raw times? IMO that changes what car I would bring to the table.
Fbody wins me over with cheap aftermarket and no guilt tearing into it for mods like Devin mentioned. But like camarokid mentioned, having the ability to drive home comfortably with the IRS etc is great, hats off to Vette.
I never looked at it in terms of PAX because I'm not too interested in those times, but interesting to see how close the handicaps are. I'm not overly competitive from a classing/national event standpoint. I race to have fun and mod however I please...put me in whatever class you want IMO.
I think we can all agree that the Fbody can be made/is still competitive within the realm of ESP classing and would be similar to a AS C5...
But if you toss everything but the kitchen sink at either car, the C5 has more potential and in raw times would come out on top.
I guess the "easy button" is the C5 on all accounts, plenty of aftermarket and more potential while performing the task at hand a little easier than the Fbody.
Like always, depends on how you want to race. Very competitive within a class and go to national events or wanting overall fastest raw times? IMO that changes what car I would bring to the table.
Fbody wins me over with cheap aftermarket and no guilt tearing into it for mods like Devin mentioned. But like camarokid mentioned, having the ability to drive home comfortably with the IRS etc is great, hats off to Vette.
Last edited by smitty2919; 03-23-2017 at 01:11 PM.
03-23-2017, 02:12 PM
#72
I have this huge urge to build a loud, smelly LT1 and toss it in the Camaro then bring my wife out to dinner at a nice upscale place and pull it up in front and have them valet park it LOL.