DrEvyl

iTrader: (5)

I'm not sure why the eye roll.

The prices people pay at auctions like you're speaking of don't necessarily reflect the whole of reality. I wouldn't pay anything close to what I think my Formula's worth if I was buying at auction, there's too many question marks in a sale that doesn't allow you to test drive the car prior to purchase. Someone who sees this car in person and test drives it is going to appreciate it a lot more than if they saw it on some auction site.

Not to mention that I'd rather take my time and sell the car to the right audience than just throw it out there for the general public. I don't wanna see this thing driving down the street all donked out 6 months from now. So I priced it at a point that isn't the kind of level I'd see in a craigslist low ball offer. And I'm quite sure I'll have to deal with ******** who agree with you when I finally list it there.

I bet you would have a field day over my friend that just sold his very modified, heavily raced hardtop SS for $12k-ish.

30th t/a

iTrader: (51)

8500-10,000 for that car. Very unique color Fbody, It looks very well takin care of and has some nice mods, but nothing too crazy and the mileage is pretty good for the year.

$6500??? LOL! Yea right.

Exactly - I found this out as well. Forget about asking about a car with higher miles & modifications in this section, If you ask about a car that has 100k on it and it has some modifications....the answer your going to get is " personally I would stay away from it, but if you absolutely want the car, 5000 would be the most I'd offer"

30th t/a

iTrader: (51)

Edit...please delete

DrEvyl

iTrader: (5)

My Formula is now officially sold.

I had about half a dozen serious buyers look at it, and over the last week there were two people who wanted to buy it, and it came down to who came up with cash first.

It sold for $8000... which is about what I figured it would go for. I hoped to get more and I coulda held out for a higher price, but I decided it was more important to get it sold.

So as far as your $6500 suggested price... .

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

Way to stick with your gut on this. Purple isn't my thing, but that certainly was a good looking and unique car that really showed pride of ownership, enough so that someone else felt it was worth your selling price. Just goes to show how dynamic the car buying market can be, mostly because you never know who is looking for what and when. And since people have been talking data points, an important one would be the age/gender of your buyer.

DrEvyl

iTrader: (5)

All the people I talked to were guys... no idea on age. Probably mid 20s - early 30s. Only met a couple of them in person and I never met the person who bought it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

DrEvyl....It doesn't really seem appropriate to offer congratulations since I know you didn't exactly want to get rid of the car but it just made sense for your situation. However, congrats on reaching the desired conclusion with this event, and thank you for sharing the details of the transaction for reference purposes.

I know the point is old and the car that started this topic is already sold, but I wanted to comment on this. I don't disagree with the logic or general sentiment, as it applies to the market at large notwithstanding certain rare or highly specific exceptions, in the rest of your post at all, but I do have to disagree with this particular comparison.

Thing about the older muscle cars is that the wide variety of engine options (and thus power outputs) is something that these 4th gens lack. A 440-6 E-body Mopar is in a completely different performance world as, say, a 318 2bbl version. So it's not just trim level cosmetic treatments that bring up the value, but the vast performance difference. In contrast, a WS6 is no faster than a Formula, and an SS is no faster than a Z28, so the only reason to justify a higher price is the cosmetic difference. While this cosmetic difference adds a certain premium to the value in the here-and-now, a hood/spoiler/wheels/badging won't ever elevate the higher trim level 4th gens to 440-6, 426 Hemi, LS6-454, etc. status. I think your comparison above would be more accurate if you were comparing an "average" condition 90k mile WS6 to a base V6 Firebird that happens to be in excellent condition with 10k miles. In this case, the appearance AND performance difference are driving factors, and enough to overwhelm the condition difference.

As it stands now, while I may be in the minority I know I'm not the only one who feels that "an LS1 is an LS1", meaning that trim level differences between the various V8 versions carry only marginal importance to me in comparison to condition. I can't see spending more money on a lesser condition example simply because it came with a different hood or spoiler or wheels....those things are simply not important enough to justify much of a premium to me. In fact, I'm more concerned about getting the interior/exterior color that I want than I am about Z28 vs SS or WS6 vs TA/Formula. Overall, now that these are all older used cars, condition is always paramount to me and will be what the majority of my dollars is spent towards rather than minor cosmetic differences between the trim levels. Perhaps this is why I have owned more Z28s than any other trim level of 4th gens.

Firebrian

I've been a Mopar enthusiast for 23 years and have owned 9 - 1968-1970 Dodge/Plymouth 383-4v/440-4v/440-6 vehicles. If you read my post again you'll see no mention of an LS6, 440-6, or Hemi cars. Those wouldn't be fair comparisons at all. It would be like comparing a 2002 305 hp Z28 to a 2002 380 hp Berger Camaro SS or a Blackbird Phase 1. My reference was strictly to a Dodge Charger where the lower HP V-8's (318-2v and 383-2v) still bring quite a bit of money in lower hp variants. A 225 Slant 6 vs a 318 V-8 Charger is not much different in demand or price. Still, the 383-4 and 440-4v cars are in much higher demand and can fetch considerably more based on specific colors and option packages, #'s, documentation, history, original paint and sheetmetal, etc.....similar to our WS6's and Formula's or SS's and Z28's. Maybe a better comparison would have been 383-2v Charger vs. 383-4v lo po (30-40 hp difference)....or....383-4v hi po vs. 440-4v (20-40 hp difference). There's not a big difference between those hp ratings, but enough to make the higher rated engine cars bring an additional 10-20% or so....and they are slightly faster. The right option package can easily negate any smallish hp difference. The same thing is true with an LS-1. A mint SOM Z28 M6 can easily bring more money than an equivalent SS in say red or black.

I disagree that the WS6 or SS's are not faster than their slightly lower rated brethren. Over an entire factory run that extra 15-35 hp has to give faster ET's. In 2002 the performance exhaust package with blackwing air lid provided 345 hp. How can 345 hp not be faster than 300-310 hp if the car's utilize the same transmission and have equivalent body weight? Certainly one can modify their Z28 or Formula to easily exceed the WS6/SS ratings. In 2000-2002 one could certainly have ordered an F Body from 200 hp to 475 hp (factory stock V-6 up to GMMG phase 2). The horse power variations were just as large as it was back in 1970 for a Dodge Charger (145 hp V6 to 425 hp Hemi). The high use 383 engine in the Dodge and Plymouth B Bodies back then was basically the LS-1 of today. There were several variations on the 383 theme that could tweak it from 290-335 hp.

I'm glad the OP got the $8K min he wanted on his car. I did say in my orig post that I'd much prefer to pay from $7K to $8K for this purple car vs. a more worn out but fully original 90,000 mile car.

NC01TA

I'm happy for the OP too. As I always state, "no harm in trying, just don't expect it." As far as his juvenile response above, it speaks volumes...
I would not have advised the buyer to pay that much though. Certainly not for a track car with 90k miles on it. No one will sway me from that opinion or future advice. That car may be good for another 50,000 miles or grenade next time at the track. No one knows.

hardbones

I am sure it was hard to let the Formula go but I think its cool you are keeping your fathers Miata.
As far as the value goes, there is a buyer for every car and you found one for yours.
I personally loved the wheels and color on the car, not your average Formula for sure!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I disagree.

You will find that, on average, there is zero acceleration difference between a Z28 and a base SS, or between a Formula and a WS6 Trans Am. I am not including the 327/330hp, 335hp, and 345hp package SS models in this assessment as they obviously came with a catback or catback/air lid upgrade and thus are no different than a base SS or Z28 with a catback upgrade....which does in fact carry a measurable performance improvement. But these packages are not found on the majority of SS models, and not on ANY WS6 model since those were not even prepared by SLP during the LS1 years (you'd have to look to Firehawk then, which came standard with the catback that was optional on SS and hence the reason I also didn't include Firehawk in my assement.)

However, in speaking of the base SS and WS6 version, they are absolutely no faster on average than a Formula or Z28 of the same model year. The '01/'02 models usually post slightly better numbers in stock form, but only because of the model year changes and not any difference between trim levels. Understand that, model year being the same, the only "performance" improvement (in terms of horsepower) between a base SS or WS6 and the lower trim level V8 is a slightly smaller muffler with 2.5" tail pipes rather than 2.25". This might represent a 2-3hp difference, which would be easily negated by the heavier, unsprung weight of the 17x9" wheels and 275 tires. The "Ram Air" setup, as it comes from the factory on an SS or WS6 car, is basically useless because it's not a sealed system and has never shown a mesureable improvement at speeds reached within the 1/4 mile on an otherwise stock LS1 (you have to modify the factory system by sealing it to realize any actual improvement at useable speeds.) You won't find any evidence of the claimed "15hp" extra rating on a base SS or WS6 if you look at average factory stock dyno numbers or 1/4 mile trap speeds over the years. Fact is, one would be fooling themselves to assume that a WS6 or base SS is any faster than a same model year Formula or Z28 when all are factory stock. This is well known among those of us who are highly experienced with these cars. In fact the quickest recorded factory stock LS1 car was a '99 Z28 (driven by Evan Smith); not an SS, not a WS6.

I disagree with this comparison as well. GMMG cars were not "factory/OEM" in the true sense of the word, and could not be ordered from GM, and thus not comparable to a factory Hemi 426ci car. There was no "factory" rating higher than 345hp for the LS1 4th gen F-bodies, and this rating was the result of a simple optional air box and catback change, not any difference with the engine itself. Fact is, the LS1 in a 2001 Z28 is the same as an LS1 in a 2001 Camaro SS or even a 2001 Corvette. There is no direct comparison to be made to actual engine differences such as in the various V8 Mopar examples you are using.

Rugcleaner

8k is a fair price for both parties in my opinion. I constantly see these things trade in the 6-9k range, and that one is definitely towards the higher end of that mark.

Rugcleaner

good job on reporting back on the real world sale info. It's always nice to see the figure between, the crazy high asking price, and the low ball valuation.

xxKennyDxx

Good luck on sale. I am trying to sell mine. I just don't need two vehicles. I ower 6800 on it so should be up for sale soon. Extra 300 a month in my pocket a month is worth more to me than my impulse buy. Learned me lesson, car is a 3500lb garage paperweight. Dropped 3k or so in mods, just want it gone so someone can enjoy it. Driving 100-200 miles a month .....not worth it. Gotta keep my truck running ....can't really clwan windows in this thing. Was fun but just not practical for my income.

DrEvyl

iTrader: (5)

Juvenile response... Hmm... if you can't handle a little harmless ribbing, I'm not sure what to say.. but you do realize that people take care of their cars, and it's just as possible to have a car that's been to the track that is in great shape as it is to have a garage queen that's been babied that will grenade the first time you get on it, right? You seem to believe taking a performance car to the track is the equivalent of giving a human the bubonic plague or something.


I do think I am ready to be done with my Formula, actually, and while selling it is a sort of bittersweet moment I am happy that it's done now.

The frustration over not having the budget / time / motivation / space to do the things I want to do to it... the pain in the *** of trying to get it in and out of my tiny garage.. and not really getting to use it as much as I'd like to... it all kinda added up. Don't get me wrong, this car is still going to hold a really special place in my heart, but I think it's time to move on to something new and different, and more conducive to how my lifestyle is NOW, versus how it was when I originally bought it.