tune or not after ls6 intake?
tune or not after ls6 intake? I had all the bolt one exept the ls6 intake. I got a tune by frost. Now I put on a Ls6 intake. Should I get a retune or just stay with the tune it has now?
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You could probably leave your tune as it is.
Granted you will pick up some additional airflow, but I don't think the changes in your engines VE is a drastic change as what a cam or H/C would do.
Ironically more people could probably benefit from a tune after a Lid change. At least as far as the MAF and LTFT function are concerned.
Personally, IMO I would run it with the same tune, especially if you are running closed-loop.
Good luck..
..WeathermanShawn..
Granted you will pick up some additional airflow, but I don't think the changes in your engines VE is a drastic change as what a cam or H/C would do.
Ironically more people could probably benefit from a tune after a Lid change. At least as far as the MAF and LTFT function are concerned.
Personally, IMO I would run it with the same tune, especially if you are running closed-loop.
Good luck..
..WeathermanShawn..
Yeah I would leave it. I have HP Tuners and didn't notice much of a change after putting the LS6 on. Closed loop you will be fine, you will be leaving a little on the table at WOT but not a whole lot. IMO.
Actually, the LS6 intake does effect VE and cylinder pressure. I would listen real close for spark knock around 4000 RPM. The '01 & '02 cars like less spark advance, and the intake is the reason. I've seen and heard guys claim their '01/'02 cars show no knock retard with '98/'00 spark advance (28 derees), so they think the car liked it. I have yet to see one gain any power with more than 25 degrees spark advance on my dyno. 28 degrees has always shown a couple rwhp loss versus 25 degrees on pump gas when usng that intake on an otherwise stock LS1.
I would talk to Steve about it. Too much timing is hard on your engine. A few dollars for an update might well spent.
I would talk to Steve about it. Too much timing is hard on your engine. A few dollars for an update might well spent.
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Actually, the LS6 intake does effect VE and cylinder pressure. I would listen real close for spark knock around 4000 RPM. The '01 & '02 cars like less spark advance, and the intake is the reason. I've seen and heard guys claim their '01/'02 cars show no knock retard with '98/'00 spark advance (28 derees), so they think the car liked it. I have yet to see one gain any power with more than 25 degrees spark advance on my dyno. 28 degrees has always shown a couple rwhp loss versus 25 degrees on pump gas when usng that intake on an otherwise stock LS1.
I would talk to Steve about it. Too much timing is hard on your engine. A few dollars for an update might well spent.
I would talk to Steve about it. Too much timing is hard on your engine. A few dollars for an update might well spent.
..WeathermanShawn..
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Just compare the stock spark tables. GM didn't de-tune the '01/'02 F body cars, which come with that intake. From what I have seen they make the most power and run the quickest. They don't certainly don't appear to be de-tuned at all. They flat don't like as much timing as the older models. I have tested that timing deal with those manifolds over and over. Results never varied. Guess it depends on how close you want it tuned.
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My mail order calibration for his 99 is relatively tame on timing to begin with. It is lower than stock in some places at WOT (99 has an aggressive spark table but it has a huge valley). Many MAFs age poorly (begin to report lower) and that has to be kept in mind as well. A few HP shy of peak is nothing in exchange for longevity.
I agree with Ed too on the 01-02's, they just don't like or need the timing like the earlier years at all, but I think some of it is in the cam difference as well.
I agree with Ed too on the 01-02's, they just don't like or need the timing like the earlier years at all, but I think some of it is in the cam difference as well.
all I can say is WOW you really learn something new every day... just compared my spark table to a 2002 I found on the HP tuners repository
this may explain the occasional 1-2 degrees of knock I have seen around 4-5k rpms... this had always confused me.... just shrugged it off as exhaust noise.
I may flash my pcm with the 02 timing table and see how it is. couldnt hurt.
setup: bolt on 2000 ls1 with ls6 manifold.
4000 and up is where the timing needs backed up. Ran into that a lot when the LS6 manifold came out. Guys were putting them on cars already modified and tuned. They always needed the timing backed up, 4K and up. The FAST intakes don't do that. That LS6 intake really starts to ram air around 4K.
When I first ran into that in 2000 I was still tuning for Cartek in NJ. LS1Edit software wasn't out yet. Julio said all they changed was the intake. At first, I thought the customer must have changed something without telling him, or put some crap fuel in it. Had to develop different spark tables for that intake. If it had been anyone but Julio telling me that, I probably would have thought somebody was smoking something. If I had not experienced that, I probably would have not believed it.
If you put 2 more degrees in and even if you see no retard, if you see no power increase, take it back out.
When I first ran into that in 2000 I was still tuning for Cartek in NJ. LS1Edit software wasn't out yet. Julio said all they changed was the intake. At first, I thought the customer must have changed something without telling him, or put some crap fuel in it. Had to develop different spark tables for that intake. If it had been anyone but Julio telling me that, I probably would have thought somebody was smoking something. If I had not experienced that, I probably would have not believed it.
If you put 2 more degrees in and even if you see no retard, if you see no power increase, take it back out.
4000 and up is where the timing needs backed up. Ran into that a lot when the LS6 manifold came out. Guys were putting them on cars already modified and tuned. They always needed the timing backed up, 4K and up. The FAST intakes don't do that. That LS6 intake really starts to ram air around 4K.
When I first ran into that in 2000 I was still tuning for Cartek in NJ. LS1Edit software wasn't out yet. Julio said all they changed was the intake. At first, I thought the customer must have changed something without telling him, or put some crap fuel in it. Had to develop different spark tables for that intake. If it had been anyone but Julio telling me that, I probably would have thought somebody was smoking something. If I had not experienced that, I probably would have not believed it.
If you put 2 more degrees in and even if you see no retard, if you see no power increase, take it back out.
When I first ran into that in 2000 I was still tuning for Cartek in NJ. LS1Edit software wasn't out yet. Julio said all they changed was the intake. At first, I thought the customer must have changed something without telling him, or put some crap fuel in it. Had to develop different spark tables for that intake. If it had been anyone but Julio telling me that, I probably would have thought somebody was smoking something. If I had not experienced that, I probably would have not believed it.
If you put 2 more degrees in and even if you see no retard, if you see no power increase, take it back out.
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Its really a good insight you have shared with us Ed. Many of us only tune one car (our own) so we do not get the benefit of seeing a pattern.
Feel free to share any other additional insights as it relates to fuel and spark. Not all of us can get to a dyno as frequently as we need to.
Thanks.
..WeathermanShawn..
Feel free to share any other additional insights as it relates to fuel and spark. Not all of us can get to a dyno as frequently as we need to.
Thanks.
..WeathermanShawn..
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From: corona
hey guys!! i have a question do you think i should get a tune for my ss? i got a asp UD pulley 25 %, SLP Flow pac, TBS, borla exhuast, and im gunna be installing MSD wires and tr55's spark plugs speaking of plugs what gap should i use also? and should i get one of those plug in tuners or go get it dynotuned or will my stock tuning be fine cause i wanna get more hp out of what i put in so far and wandering if its worth getting the tune? thanks!!!
I have an ls6 intake on my 2000 with the more aggressive stock spark table, and I don't have any knock at all (except 6th gear below 1300rpm up hills). Are you guys just talking about cars that already have timing bumped up? I'm going back and redoing my tune, wasn't going to touch the spark table originally
