Maximum Overlap on F-Body Stock Manifolds
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The 700 rpm idle really limits overlap. I'd probably stick to -13 or so. With 2.73s I put a premium on bottom end tq compared with top end power. Katech's 204/218 112 would be in the running. Also consider a 206/220 113 111 I'd use something like the comp XFI lobe on the intake and the XE-R on the exhaust.
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After working with Geoff at Thunder Racing and Patrick G, I ordered -8 overlap on my cam:
210/222 112 110 .595/.581
According to the Thunder Racing's cam doctor it ran just a hair big:
212/223 112.6 111 595/.576 I advanced the cam 1* during the install.
The result was pretty good. On a Mustang Dyno the car made 344 HP and 339 ft-lbs of TQ. Equally impressive is that I have 320 ft-lbs of torque available from 3000 - 5500 rpm. Mods on the car at dyno: 160 T-Stat, FTRA, Lid, Cam with 921 springs, Comp adjustible chain, ASP Pulley, 3.73 gears, (LS6 intake standard on a 2002).
The car still sounds stock; it is completely stealth. Idle speed is unchanged at 800. Drivability is much improved at lower rpms, which was the goal of the cam design. Since the car is a daily driver, I wanted better power down low for squirting through traffic. The car now pulls with authority at 3000 rpm and is pretty snappy at 2500 rpm.
Attached is the dyno graph. I cut off the pulls at 6000 rpm but as you can see from the shape of the curve, a 6200 rpm shift point would be ok. Tuning was done by Bret at F-Body Central in Baltimore. We left the A/F just a tad bit bit richer than normal since the car has cats and we turned the COT off.
210/222 112 110 .595/.581
According to the Thunder Racing's cam doctor it ran just a hair big:
212/223 112.6 111 595/.576 I advanced the cam 1* during the install.
The result was pretty good. On a Mustang Dyno the car made 344 HP and 339 ft-lbs of TQ. Equally impressive is that I have 320 ft-lbs of torque available from 3000 - 5500 rpm. Mods on the car at dyno: 160 T-Stat, FTRA, Lid, Cam with 921 springs, Comp adjustible chain, ASP Pulley, 3.73 gears, (LS6 intake standard on a 2002).
The car still sounds stock; it is completely stealth. Idle speed is unchanged at 800. Drivability is much improved at lower rpms, which was the goal of the cam design. Since the car is a daily driver, I wanted better power down low for squirting through traffic. The car now pulls with authority at 3000 rpm and is pretty snappy at 2500 rpm.
Attached is the dyno graph. I cut off the pulls at 6000 rpm but as you can see from the shape of the curve, a 6200 rpm shift point would be ok. Tuning was done by Bret at F-Body Central in Baltimore. We left the A/F just a tad bit bit richer than normal since the car has cats and we turned the COT off.
Last edited by Ragtop 99; Apr 16, 2006 at 07:46 AM.
Holy torque overload Batman!! Nice low-end grunt Joel. Bet the car really squirts through traffic now. This deserves its own thread. Congrats. 
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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Originally Posted by ninobrn99
This is still on the stock exhaust? 
nice!! what to those translate to on a dyno jet? i forget the difference..isnt it about 50 or so?
nice!! what to those translate to on a dyno jet? i forget the difference..isnt it about 50 or so?Bone stock cars dyno around 280 - 290 on their Mustang.
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
The flatness of that torque curve throughout the low and mid-range has to mean fantastic throttle response in daily driving. Congratulations on nailing your goals right on the head!
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Longtubes would improve power, but I would have changes my specs if I were adding long tubes; I would go with more overlap. I might still add them, but I'll probably think about another cam at that point. I'd probably move up to TR's 216 lobe from the Cheater.
The old man cam will not have the same torque characteristics. Still a good cam though
The old man cam will not have the same torque characteristics. Still a good cam though
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Got some PMs about the cam, so let me post the info that should cover the questions:
What lobes were used with your specs?
XFI / XER
Is this a cam thunder is going to offer as part of there line?
I don't know. You can ask Geoff at Thunder
If not can it be ordered from them?
Definitely! Call him and tell him you want the same cam as I have
How would you suggest changing the specs if the cam needs to pass CA emssions?
I don't believe that any change would be needed.
How would you change the specs if the cam is going to be used with n20?
The cam will work fine with a 100 - 150 shot
how would you change the specs if the cam is going to be used with a centrifical supercharger?
A centrifical supercharger typically makes power higher in the rpms. I'd think more about TR Cheater's and shifting at 6600 rpm.
What lobes were used with your specs?
XFI / XER
Is this a cam thunder is going to offer as part of there line?
I don't know. You can ask Geoff at Thunder
If not can it be ordered from them?
Definitely! Call him and tell him you want the same cam as I have
How would you suggest changing the specs if the cam needs to pass CA emssions?
I don't believe that any change would be needed.
How would you change the specs if the cam is going to be used with n20?
The cam will work fine with a 100 - 150 shot
how would you change the specs if the cam is going to be used with a centrifical supercharger?
A centrifical supercharger typically makes power higher in the rpms. I'd think more about TR Cheater's and shifting at 6600 rpm.
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Chris:
I didn't dyno prior to the install.
Tuning went very fast. I put in a guesstimate tune to lean it out at start-up a bit. From there, Bret hooked up the wideband and had part throttle & WOT done probably in an hour using FBC's mustang dyno and EFI Live. Probably would have taken me about 4 - 6 hours w/HPT to do it all w/o the wideband and on a dynojet since it takes a fair amount of driving to hit all the part throttle cells.
I didn't dyno prior to the install.
Tuning went very fast. I put in a guesstimate tune to lean it out at start-up a bit. From there, Bret hooked up the wideband and had part throttle & WOT done probably in an hour using FBC's mustang dyno and EFI Live. Probably would have taken me about 4 - 6 hours w/HPT to do it all w/o the wideband and on a dynojet since it takes a fair amount of driving to hit all the part throttle cells.
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Out of curiosity, were the valve lift values selected because that is what was available with the lobes selected? I mean the 210dur intake lobe had a .595" associated with it and same for exhaust lobe or some other reason? What lift do stock heads max or stall at?
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The valve lifts were a function of the selected lobes. I wanted a fast seat to .05 rate and a big area under the curve. I've forgotten where the stock heads stop flowing but plenty of .580+ lift cams have been used on stock heads. The amount of duration above .580 is pretty small and there is a lot gain in midrange lifts from using the lobes.
Ragtop99,
How much more hp would this cam have then a 02+ ls6 cam assuming just a cam swap? I am interested in the hp number as clearly the torque will be very different.
Whats the approx DCR with stock heads/gaskets?
Thank you...
How much more hp would this cam have then a 02+ ls6 cam assuming just a cam swap? I am interested in the hp number as clearly the torque will be very different.
Whats the approx DCR with stock heads/gaskets?
Thank you...
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DCR was around 8.2
I'd guess there would be about 10 HP more than a 02 LS6 cam. If you want a little more top end from the cam, it could be installed straight up with a slight loss in low end torque.
I'd guess there would be about 10 HP more than a 02 LS6 cam. If you want a little more top end from the cam, it could be installed straight up with a slight loss in low end torque.
