Hows 500 lbs ft at 2500 rpm? GTO with a maggie. Seems it has some belt slip, as the boost drop off up top. Customer is gonna try and fix it, and should have new HP numbers Monday. hopefully 550+ on th HP.

 

Is this a 364 or 402/403? What cam & heads?

 

6.0 displacement. Forged pistons and rods. Mild cam, stock heads. 2 bar SD tune by yours truly.

 

I would like to see a pull with hot oil but a cold engine and then a 2nd and 3rd pull...
Still it looks real good

 

Looks good, I do indeed hear of heat soaking issues with the maggie on LSX motors.

 

Still looks about the same. Doesnt bring the HP up any. Its def a boost issue. Either belt slip or SC efficiency. The boost starts dropping right were the power curve starts dropping. It spinning higher than most. We're gonna try a couple things Monday when he brings it back in.

 

How would you ever keep the tires from spinning?!?! You're at a red light and it takes all of your skill not to blow them off. j/k

Love it. Damn, that makes me drool.

 

Just blippin the throttle, it'll rip your head off!!

 

you could eat lunch on that tabletop tq cuve... good job Ed.

 

wow...thats not a typical result is it?

 

thats about par for the course when it comes to roots blowers. instant off idle torque... maybe not that drastic, but its not uncommon to see gobs of tq under 3K

 

Thanks man..

Nope! Some of its setup, some of its tuning!!

 

What the hell is this? I wouldn't tell, honest!

 

Wow I missed this thread yesterday. Good job Ed, I bet that thing is a tun of fun to drive! I have been daydreaming of a C5 with a similar setup and a 6speed more and more lately.

 

Very Nice!!!

 

Sounds like belt slips? Sounds like TRACTION problems!

 

Damn Ed that is awesome torque !!!! Any speculation on 1/4 numbers if the driver could hook all that torque off the line ?? How about how fast this thing will go on the top end ??

 

Thanks guys. Yes, its a mild cam. Barely noticeable at idle.
As for what it would run if he could hook it up? It probably flip it over on its lid!
Def no need to dump the clutch at anything over about 2500!!!

 

Thanks for the comments guys, that's my car Ed got ahold of. Lemme give you a quick rundown for anyone interested in making a similar build.

Old setup:

• Stock LS2, stock cam, stock valvetrain, 10.9:1 cr, etc..
• Kooks 1-3/4" w/cats, stock catback
• MP112 with 2.70" pulley, .83:1 rear ratio using the stock LS2 crank 7.25" (s/c spinning up to 14,500)
• Meth

Made about 517/500 WITH METH, 500/490 without

New setup:

• LS2 block, forged rotating assembly (stock crank), dished pistons resulting in about 9.5:1cr (which is lower than what they say to use for this blower)
• Upgraded valvetrain, harland-sharp rockers, comp 921 springs, comp OE lifters, etc..
• Kooks 1-7/8" w/cats, Magnaflow X-pipe in place of resonator, stock mufflers
• Custom blower cam
• ECS 8 rib pulley setup w/8" overdrive crank
• MP112 blower with 1:1 rear ratio, spins'r up to about 19,000

New power 518/561 WITHOUT meth

There's other details too, but those changes and Ed's tuning are what worked. With regards to these style of blowers, especially the MP112, it's a small blower but depending on how you spin it, you get different results. I took the MP112 blower to a different level by spinning the hell out of it really. This wasn't an overnight build, I spent awhile looking into things. Depending on heads/cam/flow/blower setup, we've got guys with the 112 who are putting down anywhere from 500-600 at the wheels, all with solid torque. Most people say the 112 is incapable of putting down more than 500 to the wheels even with supporting mods, but this has been proven many times over to be false. It's all in the setup. Lots of calculations went into this. My goal was mid 500's horse with lots of torque. I got very close to the horse, and I'm SUPER pleased with the torque.

Background:

I talked to the manufacturer, and many people who use it in race situations who've tried many combinations. Nobody on the GTO community had tried maxing the blower out before, so I said what the heck. I presumed I'd get hellish torque, and I knew beforehand that we would be pushing the blower out of its efficiency range. Still, I wanted to see what would happen.

Many called me crazy, and they're right! hehe. If the boost "drop" is due to the blower running itself out of breath because of the efficiency range, I could probably drop its spinning rate by about 2,000 and gain probably 20rwhp. But honestly, I don't see it as worth it for the trouble involved (I'd have to notch the underside of my hood to fit the larger pulley). I might try it down the road in a month or so, but honestly I love the powerband as-is. Plus, if it is belt slip, omgosh I'll probably have 540/600 when Ed's done with it. I don't mind the torque though, the fat-heavy GTO needs the torque to get going. And let me tell you. She GETS going.

I can mash it in 6th now from 60mph and it feels like it's pulling as hard as the old setup used to pull in 4th. My old setup pushed 425rwtq @ 2k/rpm and ran it up to 500 for a peak. This new setup, there's pretty much 500 off idle, and it runs up to 561.

Regarding the exhaust:

I dingo'd with the exhaust a bit too. I wanted a unique sound, but I didn't want it "loud loud". I opted for the X-pipe because of its scavaging capabilities. The H-pipe has great muscle-car sound, but the x-pipe is better for overall flow for FI vehicles from what I've seen. Basically, the exhaust piping is 3" from the headers, through the X-pipe, and about 1' after the x-pipe it narrows down to the stock 2.5" size. I'm sure that adds a bit to it. It sounds wicked too, I've had lots of compliments on it. It sounds muscly but has weird Lambo-touch to it. Of course you lose your hearing when you hear the supercharger scream. Seriously, it scared me lastnight on the highway when I hit it next to a jersey wall. I had to roll the window up hahaha..

Regarding static CR:

Another thing to consider is the static CR. Stock, the ls2's chime in at 10.9:1. Mine is currently about 9.5:1. Most people running my blower who do races say not to go below 10.0:1. I figured, what the heck, let's try it out. Plus, it adds to the safety.

About Heat Soak:

Regarding "heat soak", that has to do with intake temperatures. There's ways to combat that, and honestly, I don't have it. There's ways around it. First, you have to monitor your IAT's. A lot. Logging them even. Secondly, you have to check out where your intake pickup is. If your motor is sucking air from inside the engine bay, EVEN if you have a "cai" with heat shield and everything else, it's not a CAI. You're just recycling hot air. Look, I'm not going to argue with you here ok? Just hear me out before you hit the reply key.

Using a Lingenfelter CAI, K&N Setup and some home-brew insulation methods, we’ve logged much better IAT’s than stock. That being said, when we let the engine sit for awhile, the IAT goes up. Duh, there’s no airflow over the hood, into the engine bay, across the filter elements, plus the engine is heating up the supercharger. However, those aforementioned CAI’s do a bit better than the stock filter element. When we’d hit the gas, IAT’s would drop a few degrees gradually. As in, not fast at all, and not much at all—and that was done both just hitting the gas at idle, and while moving. That was about it. They were better than stock, but not by much. Mainly due to their insulation. For instance, the LPE model has the best “heat shield” I’ve seen.

Now, try our “TCAI”, “true CAI”, “under-car intake” or whatever you want to call it. Most people in the GTO community call it a Hardcore intake. Basically, you put the intake pickup under the car. Shield the intake piping if you’d like or not. My setup uses 4” magnesium/steel piping and 4” High Temp Silicone 4-ply silicone along with a K&N filter. Any filter would do, K&N is red so it goes with some of the red on the car.

With the engine idling and not moving, the IAT’s hop up just like before. You can’t challenge that because that’s the motor heating the supercharger up. However, the instant you push the pedal, IATs on my setup drop dramatically and faster than you can say the word lightning. With an “idle” IAT of 160* in 75* weather, if I press the pedal (either 5-10% throttle, or WOT), I would drop 30-40*. That’s with no airflow going over the car, as in, not moving. When I do that test, and begin moving, IATs drop about 50-60* total. A HUGE difference.

Why? Because air is being sucked in from under the car, not being filtered through the engine bay. One thing to keep in mind is to situate the beneath-car filter so that it doesn’t scavange hot air from the radiator if the fans are blowing. Some people use a plastic shield to block it. My CAI actually sits up and forward, protected by the bumper.

Basically, the beneath-car setup actively fights increasing IATs from boost also.

So anyhow, that’s the short version of my review on “cai” intakes. It’s not truly “cai” until it’s pulling air from outside the engine bay. Also, poking a hole in the stock airbox, and directing flow from beneath the car ISN’T the same thing. The stock airbox turns into a “sweat box” because the plastic is soaking up heat.

My lower intake temperatures are using metal tubing too, imagine the savings with a better insulatory material. No knock and no problems with high IATs on my car, even though the supercharger is almost spinning its face off. Most bolt-on Magnacharger kits choke themselves at 3psi, not mine.

Misc:

I kept the stock rocker ratio of 1.7, for anyone who is curious. I would be willing to try out Yella Teras or other rockers if I could get ahold of some. Me is currently broke.

If anyone has questions, lemme know. Also, if you're looking into the Magnacharger or MP series of blowers, check out my Pulley Chart thread on LS1gto:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142006

I'm trying to chart out as much information as I can so we have end results along with theories regarding pulley sizes, boost, setups, etc.. this isn't GTO specific, any vehicle with a roots blower could be on this chart. I'm running with the MP112, the smallest of the blowers for our cars. If I swapped to a 112HH I could probably gain 30-40horse. They also have 122 and 122HH models which flow more air, and will be coming out with the TVS blowers shortly.

Twin-screw for the win tho.. but hey, I'll work with what I have and take it past the bleeding edge. Cuz knowledge is powah!

Oh, about the tire spinning and traction comments. Yeah.. haha.. issues there LOL.. when I used to go to the drag strip I'd dump the clutch around 4,000 and when those Mickey's hooked, all i saw was light at the end of the tunnel. I can't imagine it now...

Again, thanks for the props and making it to the end of this post

 

One thing to keep in mind is, I have the stock heads still which have had no work done to them. Also the cam really is a mild cam.