DYNO results - MACs to ARH 1 7/8 headers
04-11-2008, 11:09 PM
#1
DYNO results - MACs to ARH 1 7/8 headers Before and after:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...45#post9136045
Looks like my theory was right!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...45#post9136045
Looks like my theory was right!
04-12-2008, 12:49 AM
#3
Look more closely - I added cats AND heavy *** rear wheels. I've seen (via chuprokabra and others) lose 10-18 hp and ft lbs lost due to 17x11s alone, not to mention the cats probably cost 2-6hp too. Adding that rotating mass is a biyotch! Besides, MACs are a proven header - lots of guys (including Icon and LMR) have made LOTS of power with MACs.
04-12-2008, 01:06 AM
#5
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yea. No offense, but this could be the worst comparison ever. You show almost identical numbers, and then claim that all the gain was eaten up by heaver driveline components. Come on man. This tells us nothing. If it makes you feel better about your purchase to explain away the lack of a significant gain then all the power to you, but if anything this shows that the two headers are not different enough to be outside the margain of error (considering the dyno was not done on the same day).
04-12-2008, 01:27 AM
#7
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Yea, I did add a 9" (its in the sig). But still, we are not talking about 8-10 hp here. It is a bad comparision. Maybe he did gain power, maybe he didn't. Regardless, I think to chalk all the gain into drivetrain loss is BS. It shows us nothing IMO!
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04-12-2008, 01:32 AM
#8
I lost about 19hp and tq with my 9" and if you search you will see a thread where someone actualy records the loss of adding a 9 inch.
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor so it might not be the greatest of testing but I dont see a need to dis on him for his results
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor so it might not be the greatest of testing but I dont see a need to dis on him for his results
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 04-12-2008 at 01:45 AM.
04-12-2008, 01:44 AM
#9
I lost about 19hp and tq with my 9" and if you search you will see a thread where someone actualy records the loss of adding a 9 inch.
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor.
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor.
I SHOULD have put the old wheels on but it was a long week and I was tired. We know heavy *** 17x11 ZR1 replicas cost hp and tq. Maybe 2, maybe 20 - but it's relevant. I know when I put on the 11s for the first time 10 days ago, the car was DEFINITELY and NOTICEABLY slower.
Yeah, 2 months and probably at least 10 degrees higher temps today. I know it's corrected, but hey...
So in reality, I picked up a small amount everywhere AND I have my last set of headers. I call that a win.
04-12-2008, 01:55 AM
#10
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ght=dyno+17x11
Lots of guys have done this and the difference is noticeable.
I acknowledged the variable of the wheels. It's not huge but it is noticeable. The before and after 17x11s drive was pretty damn significant.
I picked up 2 hp, maybe margin of error on the dyno. So it came out basically the same, after the wheels, so it was a definite gain had I not changed wheels. We don't know for sure how much - but it was a gain. Even if one of the dynos is more "optimistic", worst case is - not a loss. Best case is, a more relevant gain.
That's not that hard to understand, is it? So hostile...
04-12-2008, 01:59 AM
#11
I lost about 19hp and tq with my 9" and if you search you will see a thread where someone actualy records the loss of adding a 9 inch.
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor so it might not be the greatest of testing but I dont see a need to dis on him for his results
I think your missing the point as well. He lost nothing on the bottom end where he was told he would. Once he cams that thing and then gets heads his new LT's will really stand out.
Dont under estimate parastic loss. Also weather and different dynos all play a factor so it might not be the greatest of testing but I dont see a need to dis on him for his results
And yeah, whatever the new mods end up being, I'll get more out of each one of them!
04-12-2008, 09:02 AM
#16
How was the air quality and how did it compare to the day this guy dynoed. also did the .5 hp loss you saw actualy get done same day? In other woprds they laid a baseline down and then swapped out the rear and dynoed same day at the same temps?
I know how much I experienced and honestly your arguing against physics here. It weighs more, it will cause a loss just because of the weight of it alone let nevermind the gearing. Do a search an you will find a thread where somene baselines, swaps their rear to a 9 and then dynos all in the same day and records 19hp and like 17tq loss. Thats about as accurate as your going to get for a test like this.
You guys are bagging on this guy for what? He posted his results, why is that so hard for some to accept?
I know how much I experienced and honestly your arguing against physics here. It weighs more, it will cause a loss just because of the weight of it alone let nevermind the gearing. Do a search an you will find a thread where somene baselines, swaps their rear to a 9 and then dynos all in the same day and records 19hp and like 17tq loss. Thats about as accurate as your going to get for a test like this.
You guys are bagging on this guy for what? He posted his results, why is that so hard for some to accept?
04-12-2008, 10:22 AM
#17
Tech Resident
Look more closely - I added cats AND heavy *** rear wheels. I've seen (via chuprokabra and others) lose 10-18 hp and ft lbs lost due to 17x11s alone, not to mention the cats probably cost 2-6hp too. Adding that rotating mass is a biyotch! Besides, MACs are a proven header - lots of guys (including Icon and LMR) have made LOTS of power with MACs.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
That's really not impressive at all IMO. You went from Mac mids to longtubes and gained virtually nothing at all. Basically, your LONGTUBES did no better than a MID-LENGTH. I think you would have gained a lot more going with a longtube.
I bet if you went with 1 3/4 QTP's, you would have gained an easy 10rwhp all over the entire curve. I've seen 1 3/4 QTP's make 10rwhp over Pacesetters, and Pacesetters will outperform Macs.
The numbers you have are very disappointing IMO, and since it wasn't even a dyno on the same day, they're virtually meaningless. I wouldn't be happy if I spent $1500 on no gain. You could have spent a lot less money and gotten a much bigger gain.
Sorry for being a buzzkill, but this is where internet legends are born and these are the threads that will cause people to make bad decisions. You went from a midlength header with a y-pipe with a terrible merge to a longtube with high velocity merge collectors and a good merge in the y-pipe and gained nothing. This thread is proof that 1 7/8 headers are a bad decision on a 346 because even with better collectors and a much better y-pipe, they can't outperform mids. Again, not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't want to see a bunch of people buying the wrong product for their car. I feel you made the wrong decision here, at least for the short term. Unless you want to go FI on a stroker, I can't justify the cost of 1 7/8 headers, not when they can't outperform an outdated midlength header with a junk y-pipe. I think this thread is proof of what Tony Mamo had to say in the last thread.
I bet if you went with 1 3/4 QTP's, you would have gained an easy 10rwhp all over the entire curve. I've seen 1 3/4 QTP's make 10rwhp over Pacesetters, and Pacesetters will outperform Macs.
The numbers you have are very disappointing IMO, and since it wasn't even a dyno on the same day, they're virtually meaningless. I wouldn't be happy if I spent $1500 on no gain. You could have spent a lot less money and gotten a much bigger gain.
Sorry for being a buzzkill, but this is where internet legends are born and these are the threads that will cause people to make bad decisions. You went from a midlength header with a y-pipe with a terrible merge to a longtube with high velocity merge collectors and a good merge in the y-pipe and gained nothing. This thread is proof that 1 7/8 headers are a bad decision on a 346 because even with better collectors and a much better y-pipe, they can't outperform mids. Again, not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't want to see a bunch of people buying the wrong product for their car. I feel you made the wrong decision here, at least for the short term. Unless you want to go FI on a stroker, I can't justify the cost of 1 7/8 headers, not when they can't outperform an outdated midlength header with a junk y-pipe. I think this thread is proof of what Tony Mamo had to say in the last thread.
04-12-2008, 10:25 AM
#18
Tech Resident
yea. No offense, but this could be the worst comparison ever. You show almost identical numbers, and then claim that all the gain was eaten up by heaver driveline components. Come on man. This tells us nothing. If it makes you feel better about your purchase to explain away the lack of a significant gain then all the power to you, but if anything this shows that the two headers are not different enough to be outside the margain of error (considering the dyno was not done on the same day).
I see this entire thread, hell all the threads that the OP has made, as an attempt to justify a huge cost in his own mind. I would be nothing short of pissed off to gain nothing out of a $1500 purchase.
This post is proof that 1 7/8 headers are a bad choice on a 346. They can't even outperform a mid. I also question ARH's longtube design if they couldn't outperform a mid on the top end, even with high velocity merge collectors. It makes me like my 1 3/4 QTP's more, I'll tell you that.
04-12-2008, 10:30 AM
#19
You ALSO added a MUCH better y-pipe with a MUCH better y-merge AND high velocity merge collectors with a velocity spike and gained NOTHING. Those cats on that y-pipe don't obstruct flow, not on your engine, so that's a mood point. I'm going to post in here what I posted in that thread:
You spent $1500 and gained nothing. I wouldn't be pleased at all.
You spent $1500 and gained nothing. I wouldn't be pleased at all.
Its moot point not mood..LOL Again another person fails to see the point.
TO the OP.. You will run into people like this. Pay them no mind at all.
They arent smart enought to realize that building a car is a process.
Cats obstruct flow, to say they dont is a lie.
Adding bigger pipes to a stock ls1 did not hurt him here as suggested. He posted to prove his point and he gets sour grapes. LMAO
Maybe some of you dont have the money he did to drop on one of the finest header systems you can buy. Dont know but to be putting him down is stupid.
04-12-2008, 10:57 AM
#20
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adding cat's and 17x11 w/ 315's .. will net a minimum of 15rwhp loss. I'd put money on it!!!!!!