Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better!
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! No Jason,
Unfortunately, Comp has delayed the most recent batch of XE-R lobed cams. Mine was ordered 2 weeks ago and now they say it won't ship for at least 10 more days. <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
I had the entire day set aside to put it in today. Got screwed by Comp. Hopefully the wait will be worth it...unless Geoff has a trick TR cam he'd let go for a sweet price. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> hint, hint.
Patrick
Unfortunately, Comp has delayed the most recent batch of XE-R lobed cams. Mine was ordered 2 weeks ago and now they say it won't ship for at least 10 more days. <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
I had the entire day set aside to put it in today. Got screwed by Comp. Hopefully the wait will be worth it...unless Geoff has a trick TR cam he'd let go for a sweet price. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> hint, hint.
Patrick
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
I can shift faster than you.
iTrader: (21)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,133
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Damn Patrick! I was waiting to see the results. I hope you get it installed soon. As far as a trick new TR cam, you would have to Geoff a call regarding that. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Here is some cool info/graphs from the Cam Pro-Plus comparing the Thunder 224 to the Comp 224 XE-R.
Thunder 224 = 224V3736.CPP
Comp 224 XE-R = 224PAUL.CPP
http://jason99ta.slowcar.net/tr224_comp224xe-r.jpg
http://jason99ta.slowcar.net/tr224_comp224xe-r2.jpg
As you can see, the Comp 224 XE-R lobe is actually smaller than what they advertise.
Here is some cool info/graphs from the Cam Pro-Plus comparing the Thunder 224 to the Comp 224 XE-R.
Thunder 224 = 224V3736.CPP
Comp 224 XE-R = 224PAUL.CPP
http://jason99ta.slowcar.net/tr224_comp224xe-r.jpg
http://jason99ta.slowcar.net/tr224_comp224xe-r2.jpg
As you can see, the Comp 224 XE-R lobe is actually smaller than what they advertise.
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]
The lobes are proprietary to Thunder Racing.
<hr></blockquote>
Yeah right. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
The lobes are proprietary to Thunder Racing.
<hr></blockquote>
Yeah right. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I'm getting my new cam installed with Stage II heads, I like it because it's kind of a unique cam. 227/227 .591/.591 113 LSA <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> . It will be interesting to see how this behaves in my car. Any thoughts guys?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 4
From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! When are you getting it installed.. Right now I have not seen any proof or benefit of big more aggressive cams.. Still theory...
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Teching In
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I might just be a newbie but I don't think some of you guys are thinking clearly:
Of course a plain cam swap isn't necessarily going to increase power on it's own; if you alter the valveing's mechanical characterisitcs it must be accompanyied by alterations is the support systems- the heads. The notion of a cam swap ONLY is sort of silly if you look at it like that. The only reason for a sraight cam swap without making any other alterations would be to change the *way* the engine produces power. A different cam parameters can move the powerband around; though perhaps not producing more power overall. Although a more agressive cam with the stock heads might be able to give you more power but at the expense of idle quality. It's all trade-offs and balance; there are no absolutes.
But yes- performance oriented cams will produce more power; all other things being equal. But I don't have the stright numbers you're looking for.
Like I said, I'm just a newbie.....
-Mike
Of course a plain cam swap isn't necessarily going to increase power on it's own; if you alter the valveing's mechanical characterisitcs it must be accompanyied by alterations is the support systems- the heads. The notion of a cam swap ONLY is sort of silly if you look at it like that. The only reason for a sraight cam swap without making any other alterations would be to change the *way* the engine produces power. A different cam parameters can move the powerband around; though perhaps not producing more power overall. Although a more agressive cam with the stock heads might be able to give you more power but at the expense of idle quality. It's all trade-offs and balance; there are no absolutes.
But yes- performance oriented cams will produce more power; all other things being equal. But I don't have the stright numbers you're looking for.
Like I said, I'm just a newbie.....
-Mike
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Vince,
The more aggressive lobes are going to make more power. If you need proof just look at a solid roller configuration. As for big cams... it's not just about power #s. There is one thing you could do with a big camshaft that you could not do with one of the smaller cams... that is take advantage of some awesome gearing. Try running a 5.13 gear with your T1 cam. You will be out of gear very quickly going down the quarter. Take a larger camshaft that lets you make power into the 7200-7800 range and you can take advantage of better gearing. The 1/4 mile is heavily dependent on the bottom end of the track. Right now no one is really pushing a powerband to peak in the mid 7K range. If I were building an all out 1/4 mile car I'd be turning to high 7s with a 5500-5800 stall and some 28 inch slicks. It's all about the package not just power #s.
Tim
The more aggressive lobes are going to make more power. If you need proof just look at a solid roller configuration. As for big cams... it's not just about power #s. There is one thing you could do with a big camshaft that you could not do with one of the smaller cams... that is take advantage of some awesome gearing. Try running a 5.13 gear with your T1 cam. You will be out of gear very quickly going down the quarter. Take a larger camshaft that lets you make power into the 7200-7800 range and you can take advantage of better gearing. The 1/4 mile is heavily dependent on the bottom end of the track. Right now no one is really pushing a powerband to peak in the mid 7K range. If I were building an all out 1/4 mile car I'd be turning to high 7s with a 5500-5800 stall and some 28 inch slicks. It's all about the package not just power #s.
Tim
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 4
From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I see your point Tim.. What about for all around package? Will a XE-R cam be that much better than a T1 cam..? My specs compared to 224/224 .581/.581 lsa 112 for instance.. Yes my heads flow upwards of .650 lift, but how much more will I gain by increasing my duration and lift? I have not seen any proof of bigger duration and higher lift cams. Yes, more factors than just the cam, but aren't we all speculating..? Is beating up the valvetrain the solution to getting more power. A cam swap from one cam to the next is one way of prooving which is better, but even that evidence is tainted.. The new cam might just be better suited for your combo than the old cam... We just have to keep trying until something works.. I would love to spin my motor to 8k and still be making power, but how long will the engine last..? It all boils down to what you want. I personally want a strong street setup.. I do not care about running low 11's or high 10's.. I am not stripping my car.. I just want to be a wolf in sheeps clothing...
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,298
Likes: 2
From: new england
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Mike the newbie, i have to disagree with you somewhat about merits of just a cam swap,there is lots of room for improvement over factory cams, in fact a study of dynos on this site will show that medium range performance cams will alot of the time give more torque everywhere in the powerband, kind of like best of both worlds results. This p;ower will translate to better track times also.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 4
From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! You guys know I am no stranger to taking chances.. I just do not like doing all the leg work for everyone else.. How long has the XE-R's been out? Plus, what vendors are using these magic cams?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 339
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]Originally posted by vmoore:
<strong>You guys know I am no stranger to taking chances.. I just do not like doing all the leg work for everyone else.. How long has the XE-R's been out? Plus, what vendors are using these magic cams?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe the GTP Pig and Piglet cam use even more aggressive ramps than these. i am sure a company like Ultradyne or lazer will make you anything you want, you just have to do it right.
big cams have been done but not necessarily right yet on these boards...
i think Terry and Fireball will be closer to what you need from posts I have read but you may need even more gear and converter in Terry's case (unknown yet) and fireball's car should be wicked with the right tires and shiftpoints
i think going with a big ole' cam is gonna necessitate the need of some bottom end work so it holds up, big gears, and big stall and a lighter car is obviously always better
<strong>You guys know I am no stranger to taking chances.. I just do not like doing all the leg work for everyone else.. How long has the XE-R's been out? Plus, what vendors are using these magic cams?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe the GTP Pig and Piglet cam use even more aggressive ramps than these. i am sure a company like Ultradyne or lazer will make you anything you want, you just have to do it right.
big cams have been done but not necessarily right yet on these boards...
i think Terry and Fireball will be closer to what you need from posts I have read but you may need even more gear and converter in Terry's case (unknown yet) and fireball's car should be wicked with the right tires and shiftpoints
i think going with a big ole' cam is gonna necessitate the need of some bottom end work so it holds up, big gears, and big stall and a lighter car is obviously always better
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]Originally posted by vmoore:
<strong>You guys know I am no stranger to taking chances.. I just do not like doing all the leg work for everyone else.. How long has the XE-R's been out? Plus, what vendors are using these magic cams?</strong><hr></blockquote>
They have been available since about last june.
I know that MTI sells them.
"magic cams"? huh?
JC
<strong>You guys know I am no stranger to taking chances.. I just do not like doing all the leg work for everyone else.. How long has the XE-R's been out? Plus, what vendors are using these magic cams?</strong><hr></blockquote>
They have been available since about last june.
I know that MTI sells them.
"magic cams"? huh?
JC
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Carrollton, TX
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Agressive could be attributed to "cam slope" if there was such a term.
Anyhow a cam that did:
224@.050" and 170@.200"
How about if there was a 210@.050" 170@.200", this would make more power than the below cam.
I'm sure it'd be some wicket square solid.
will make more power than one that
did
224@.050" and 135@.200".
Its that easy, how much duration you have at valve lifts that the heads are actually able to get some work done is the important factor.
Anyhow a cam that did:
224@.050" and 170@.200"
How about if there was a 210@.050" 170@.200", this would make more power than the below cam.
I'm sure it'd be some wicket square solid.
will make more power than one that
did
224@.050" and 135@.200".
Its that easy, how much duration you have at valve lifts that the heads are actually able to get some work done is the important factor.
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas F-Body Heaven!!!
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Almost a month later..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL!!!
Come on guys! Surely someone's been to the dyno. I'll post some numberes when I get the chance but I don't think it's what Vince is looking for as I swapped out my stock cam. Let's see some aftermarket cam to aftermarket cam dyno's.
'Los
<strong>Almost a month later..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL!!!
Come on guys! Surely someone's been to the dyno. I'll post some numberes when I get the chance but I don't think it's what Vince is looking for as I swapped out my stock cam. Let's see some aftermarket cam to aftermarket cam dyno's.
'Los