LS1 Oil Pump Pressure Relief Study
If you were an OEM Manufacturer, would you freely give away your intellectual property? How would you stay in business? As an Aftermarket Manufacturer/Marketeer/SEMA member, would you freely give away your intellectual property? Would you reveal the things you had discovered via reverse engineering? I don't think so. No viable economic model will work under these circumstances.
Just give it some thought.
All my best,
Steve
Just give it some thought.
All my best,
Steve
Last edited by Steve Bryant; Mar 18, 2006 at 01:22 PM.
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
If you were an OEM Manufacturer, would you freely give away your intellectual property? How would you stay in business? As an Aftermarket Manufacturer/Marketeer/SEMA member, would you freely give away your intellectual property? Would you reveal the things you had discovered via reverse engineering? I don't think so. No viable economic model will work under these circumstances.
Just give it some thought.
All my best,
Steve
Just give it some thought.
All my best,
Steve
Originally Posted by Hodge
It is a shame we (the automotive enthusiast community) has to backward engineer most of the things we do. As an engineer, I hate to "reinvent the wheel." Wouldn't it be nice to have access to:
source code for the ECM
design requirements for heads
camshaft design
oil pump design
communication protocol between the various on-board computers
Too bad GM is a for-profit company...
source code for the ECM
design requirements for heads
camshaft design
oil pump design
communication protocol between the various on-board computers
Too bad GM is a for-profit company...
Steve
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 44
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From: Near Cobaltville
So who makes a pump with the highest flow? As a former plumber I would agree that in this case flow is better than pressure. I'm no engineer, but you could have 100psi. that doesn't mean yer getting more oil around the engine more efficiently. The more flow the better.
Is Milling the best or do you advocate another EM?
Is Milling the best or do you advocate another EM?
Hodge,
I'm an engineer too (aircraft electronics) and a former Detroit Diesel mechanic. Sometimes, I misunderstand what someone else is saying and sometimes, I don't say things as well as I could.
Kanewolf,
As long as you have adequate oil pressure, that's enough. Too much oil pressure can blow seals and cause other trouble in time. Also, the power required to increase the oil pressure to a higher level above what is necessary (like above 60 PSI at high RPM's), represents a parasitic loss in power to the rear wheels.
Steve
I'm an engineer too (aircraft electronics) and a former Detroit Diesel mechanic. Sometimes, I misunderstand what someone else is saying and sometimes, I don't say things as well as I could.
Kanewolf,
As long as you have adequate oil pressure, that's enough. Too much oil pressure can blow seals and cause other trouble in time. Also, the power required to increase the oil pressure to a higher level above what is necessary (like above 60 PSI at high RPM's), represents a parasitic loss in power to the rear wheels.
Steve
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Near Cobaltville
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
Kanewolf,
As long as you have adequate oil pressure, that's enough. Too much oil pressure can blow seals and cause other trouble in time. Also, the power required to increase the oil pressure to a higher level above what is necessary (like above 60 PSI at high RPM's), represents a parasitic loss in power to the rear wheels.
Steve
As long as you have adequate oil pressure, that's enough. Too much oil pressure can blow seals and cause other trouble in time. Also, the power required to increase the oil pressure to a higher level above what is necessary (like above 60 PSI at high RPM's), represents a parasitic loss in power to the rear wheels.
Steve
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Would you want to port your existing pump yourself or would you prefer to purchase a ported pump? As far as I know, all of the aftermarket pumps are reworked factory pumps. For instance, the Katech oil pump claims to be blueprinted which I'm sure means disassembled, cleaned, and dimensions verified to be within specified tolerances. Then the pump inlet is ported, re-cleaned, inspected, lubricated and reassembled. They mention nothing about porting the outlet http://www.katechengines.com/street_...Oil%20Pump.pdf. I'm sure that Katech and others provide a good service. However, with a little effort, you can port the inlet and the outlet and accomplish the same thing if not more if you are so inclined. See my post 12 above.
Otherwise, I couldn't personally recommend or steer you away from any specific supplier of oil pumps. The factory gerator pump is a very robust/excellent design in my opinion!
Steve
Would you want to port your existing pump yourself or would you prefer to purchase a ported pump? As far as I know, all of the aftermarket pumps are reworked factory pumps. For instance, the Katech oil pump claims to be blueprinted which I'm sure means disassembled, cleaned, and dimensions verified to be within specified tolerances. Then the pump inlet is ported, re-cleaned, inspected, lubricated and reassembled. They mention nothing about porting the outlet http://www.katechengines.com/street_...Oil%20Pump.pdf. I'm sure that Katech and others provide a good service. However, with a little effort, you can port the inlet and the outlet and accomplish the same thing if not more if you are so inclined. See my post 12 above.
Otherwise, I couldn't personally recommend or steer you away from any specific supplier of oil pumps. The factory gerator pump is a very robust/excellent design in my opinion!
Steve
2 bad my motor let go at 35K and GM said tough crap back in 2002. Why did it let go? Oil pump died. Excellent post, great work. Attached is the internal GM memo with regards to the bad oil pumps.
Last edited by Viper; Mar 22, 2006 at 05:49 PM.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 44
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From: Near Cobaltville
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
Kanewolf,
Would you want to port your existing pump yourself or would you prefer to purchase a ported pump? As far as I know, all of the aftermarket pumps are reworked factory pumps. For instance, the Katech oil pump claims to be blueprinted which I'm sure means disassembled, cleaned, and dimensions verified to be within specified tolerances.
Steve
Would you want to port your existing pump yourself or would you prefer to purchase a ported pump? As far as I know, all of the aftermarket pumps are reworked factory pumps. For instance, the Katech oil pump claims to be blueprinted which I'm sure means disassembled, cleaned, and dimensions verified to be within specified tolerances.
Steve
Kanewolf,
You have to pull the front pulley and front cover. Then remove the cam gear and chain, then remove the crank gear. Then you remove the oil pump. You have to do all of this regardless of whether or not you buy a new pump or reuse you existing one. My engine is in a truck. I'm not sure whether you want to go from below or above. It's been my experience that you have to do some from above and some from below on any vehicle. Obviously the trucks have more room.
Steve
You have to pull the front pulley and front cover. Then remove the cam gear and chain, then remove the crank gear. Then you remove the oil pump. You have to do all of this regardless of whether or not you buy a new pump or reuse you existing one. My engine is in a truck. I'm not sure whether you want to go from below or above. It's been my experience that you have to do some from above and some from below on any vehicle. Obviously the trucks have more room.
Steve
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 44
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From: Near Cobaltville
Front pulley and cover I can do, but the cam and crank gear may be out of my league. As we all know, the F-Body LS1 has hardly any room to work with, I think I'm talking myself out of this mod. A man's gotta know his limits. So far evey mod I've gotten, I put in myself, including NOS and other goodies. But this might be one of those times when I throw up my hands and say F^$# it, not worth the time 
It's not that hard to tackle the cam and crank gear. This coming from a guy who runs networks all day. I was afraid back in 2002 but last year I put my own motor in ( after pulling it in 2004 ). Go for it!
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
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From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by Viper
2 bad my motor let go at 35K and GM said tough crap back in 2002. Why did it let go? Oil pump died. Excellent post, great work. Attached is the internal GM memo with regards to the bad oil pumps.
Thanks.
From what I could squint out that memo looks like a typical big beauratic memo- these guys showed up, they discussed the "issue," but didn't decide anything but having another meeting.
It basically stated they had a significant problem with the quality edge of the D-hole in the pressure relief bore from a certain supplier, either Tesma or Bay City. From what I understand this took place in summer of 2000 and they switched vendors based on their findings. The original doc is 200kb and the best I could do was 82kb, sorry. Needless to say the 98-99 guys know they had better replace the pump when doing a H/C swap. After 6 years we know it anyway! Try this one at 99kb:
Last edited by Viper; Mar 23, 2006 at 07:35 PM.
one thing on the gen1 sbc's that seemed to not really increase flow but get oil to where it needed to be the most was plugging up certain passages. did gm design the blocks so u couldnt really modify where the oil went? what good is the flow if its not going to where it needs to be most?
Originally Posted by Louis
It takes 4 psi to float a crank at idle FWIW 