Jager Aluminum Rods
Jager Aluminum Rods I heard mention of these rods in another thread here and felt it was worthy of some research. Information on the internet is pretty nill at this point. I did find this article in a web cache here (Pictures no workie). A brief synopsis:
Jager has perfected a process that alters the molecular structure of aluminum that greatly increases his strength. He has developed extreme duty connecting rods that weigh 2/3's or less of what a comparable steel rod weigh with the same or greater durability!!! The dept. of energy has taken an interest in his work for the large OEM markets. Cool stuff, I hope it makes it to the widespread consumer market soon!!
Jager has perfected a process that alters the molecular structure of aluminum that greatly increases his strength. He has developed extreme duty connecting rods that weigh 2/3's or less of what a comparable steel rod weigh with the same or greater durability!!! The dept. of energy has taken an interest in his work for the large OEM markets. Cool stuff, I hope it makes it to the widespread consumer market soon!!
nice link
here is the patent....#20040107794
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20040107794.html
lots of info
here is the patent....#20040107794
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20040107794.html
lots of info
The rods were outlawed in '04 in NHRA Pro Stock and then in IHRA Pro Stock. Jager had to junk $80K in rods useless to any other forms of racing. Kirk will be back making rods as soon as the bar stock lands. He had hoped to be mfg. the first quarter of '07 but with the boom in aircraft his aluminum delivery has been delayed by 20 weeks.
As a side note Jager has a 355 SBC with a 144 blower on it that dropped a valve a few months back. It has the original prototype rods in it. They are over 6 years old and have about 38K miles on them being the engine had been in both a street strip car and then a pick up truck. The latter saw a few 14 hour trips up to MI when Jager would visit home.
A 6" rod can weight in the 415 gm range and take 1000 HP.
As a side note Jager has a 355 SBC with a 144 blower on it that dropped a valve a few months back. It has the original prototype rods in it. They are over 6 years old and have about 38K miles on them being the engine had been in both a street strip car and then a pick up truck. The latter saw a few 14 hour trips up to MI when Jager would visit home.
A 6" rod can weight in the 415 gm range and take 1000 HP.
On The Tree
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From: Southern Maryland
At the risk of sounding simple minded and or naive, what is the difference between this: ....electrochemically processing the aluminum alloy connecting rod components in order to form an aluminum oxide matrix on the surface and sealing the interstitial cavities of the matrix with an inert fluoropolymer to thus provide a composite layer providing added surface hardness and lubricity in order to decrease seizing and deformation of the connecting rod during use.. . . .
And hard anodizing of aluminum?
Karl
And hard anodizing of aluminum?
Karl
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TECH Resident
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Originally Posted by Karl Ellwein
At the risk of sounding simple minded and or naive, what is the difference between this: ....electrochemically processing the aluminum alloy connecting rod components in order to form an aluminum oxide matrix on the surface and sealing the interstitial cavities of the matrix with an inert fluoropolymer to thus provide a composite layer providing added surface hardness and lubricity in order to decrease seizing and deformation of the connecting rod during use.. . . .
And hard anodizing of aluminum?
Karl
And hard anodizing of aluminum?
Karl
On The Tree
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From: Southern Maryland
Originally Posted by andereck
Its teflon coated anodized aluminum. duh!
I'm trying to learn something here. I really looks like its the same thing but with just different wording.
Karl
Originally Posted by Karl Ellwein
I hear you on that. I can see how the splayed bolts are "different" but I cannot see how the "transformed aluminum" is any different from commercially available coatings from places like ROSS, (top fuel green coating or the super dense black skirt which is hard anodizing with teflon seal on the skirts).
I'm trying to learn something here. I really looks like its the same thing but with just different wording.
Karl
I'm trying to learn something here. I really looks like its the same thing but with just different wording.
Karl
Also the lubricity of the material allows one to run no babbit bearings if you choose and very tight oil clearances. The PS teams running them were at .0005" oil clearance.
Originally Posted by Cstraub
It's not a coating. The aluminum to a certain depth is transformed. The process increases the rod strength 5X's.
Also the lubricity of the material allows one to run no babbit bearings if you choose and very tight oil clearances. The PS teams running them were at .0005" oil clearance.
Also the lubricity of the material allows one to run no babbit bearings if you choose and very tight oil clearances. The PS teams running them were at .0005" oil clearance.
Last edited by 96 Comp T/A; Apr 25, 2007 at 12:38 PM.
TECH Resident
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Me thinks there is no "transformation". As mentioned above the description is anodized aluminum coated in teflon, basically. As far as the "clearances" go, don't think so, and you don't know what the hole size is in the engine, only how shipped. Aluminum rods are also very sensitive to oil temperature.
Its just another freaking aluminum rod that everyone that has a cnc mill can make. There's nothing new under the sun there.
Its just another freaking aluminum rod that everyone that has a cnc mill can make. There's nothing new under the sun there.
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Southern Maryland
CStraub: I'm still not following you on the advanced tech of this.
I guess in a nut shell I'm trying to raise a marketing flag.
As far as I know, all manufactures who want to make aluminum stiffer = (overall stronger), will do the chemical surface treatment (transformation) called hard anodizing. Titan gerotor oil pumps are hard anodized aluminum and are 1000 times "stronger" than something like a billet moroso oil pump. (probably a bad misquote of Bob Sanders...sorry).
A top fuel green coating on a ROSS piston is a hard anodizing process. (not a coating technically). It makes the piston 'stronger' and 'slipery'.
The literature linked in this thread speaks about the Jager rod and the surface transformation as an aluminum oxide (anodizing) with teflon surface, (coating).
Let me rephrase the question. I see this as possibly a refinement of current anodizing and coating technology. Has anyone here reading this thread been involved with the Jager process directly who can shed a bit more light for me and show that the Jager rod is not "simply" a teflon coated hard anodized billet aluminum rod?
The literature also states that the surface treatment requires the part to be sized smaller to compensate, (exactly like a ROSS piston prior to it's hard anodizing). If you machine the part it will take away that surface treatment. That's how I read the Jager rod links.
Karl
I guess in a nut shell I'm trying to raise a marketing flag.
As far as I know, all manufactures who want to make aluminum stiffer = (overall stronger), will do the chemical surface treatment (transformation) called hard anodizing. Titan gerotor oil pumps are hard anodized aluminum and are 1000 times "stronger" than something like a billet moroso oil pump. (probably a bad misquote of Bob Sanders...sorry).
A top fuel green coating on a ROSS piston is a hard anodizing process. (not a coating technically). It makes the piston 'stronger' and 'slipery'.
The literature linked in this thread speaks about the Jager rod and the surface transformation as an aluminum oxide (anodizing) with teflon surface, (coating).
Let me rephrase the question. I see this as possibly a refinement of current anodizing and coating technology. Has anyone here reading this thread been involved with the Jager process directly who can shed a bit more light for me and show that the Jager rod is not "simply" a teflon coated hard anodized billet aluminum rod?
The literature also states that the surface treatment requires the part to be sized smaller to compensate, (exactly like a ROSS piston prior to it's hard anodizing). If you machine the part it will take away that surface treatment. That's how I read the Jager rod links.
Karl
Originally Posted by Cstraub
It's not a coating. The aluminum to a certain depth is transformed. The process increases the rod strength 5X's.
Also the lubricity of the material allows one to run no babbit bearings if you choose and very tight oil clearances. The PS teams running them were at .0005" oil clearance.
Also the lubricity of the material allows one to run no babbit bearings if you choose and very tight oil clearances. The PS teams running them were at .0005" oil clearance.
Chris, I think your wasting your time here. Your head's gonna hurt.
Originally Posted by andereck
Me thinks there is no "transformation". As mentioned above the description is anodized aluminum coated in teflon, basically. As far as the "clearances" go, don't think so, and you don't know what the hole size is in the engine, only how shipped. Aluminum rods are also very sensitive to oil temperature.
Its just another freaking aluminum rod that everyone that has a cnc mill can make. There's nothing new under the sun there.
Its just another freaking aluminum rod that everyone that has a cnc mill can make. There's nothing new under the sun there.
I have seen the bore sizing on the outlawed NHRA prostock rods. I have seen measured a set of PS rods with 150 passes on them out of top NHRA teams engine. 7 rods were within spec of when they left 1 rod had stretched .0001"
Temperature does not affect these rods.
6 years ago I didn't believe it either, an aluminum rod that will live where any steel rod will. . .Nope not buying it. Well they're real, they come from NE TN, and they are ugly green.
Originally Posted by 96 Comp T/A
Once the material has been transformed can you finish machine the transformed material (i.e. the rod and pin journals) or is it sized before the transformation process?
Karl,
I am not an engineer but this is what I do know:
The original prototype rods have over 38K miles on them in a 355 blower engine.
I personally have sold them to several dirt track sprint car teams that have run them successfully for 3 and 4 years.
The Dept. of Energy after cycle and yield testing called Detroit and had them contact Jager about the possiblities of the rod for OEM production engines.
I personally own a cam lobe (8620 billet) that was flat sided by a Jager rod when the engine did not have enough clearance between the rod and the camshaft.
I talked to Kirk after NHRA banned his 415gm Pro Stock rod after it had been found in an engine along with some other items that had been "Transformed". Two weeks later IHRA banned them. I was with him at Bristol in '02 when myself and Mark Cathell took Kirk around to talk to the NHRA teams. Only 1 team at the time would listen. That team went on to dominate PS in NHRA.
I know that in IHRA testing the rods were worth a peak of 52HP on an engine and an average of 35HP throughout the powerband after removing the Ti rods that were 100gms heaver per rod then the Jagers.
Marketing BS doesn't get outlawed, a better mouse trap does....
I am not an engineer but this is what I do know:
The original prototype rods have over 38K miles on them in a 355 blower engine.
I personally have sold them to several dirt track sprint car teams that have run them successfully for 3 and 4 years.
The Dept. of Energy after cycle and yield testing called Detroit and had them contact Jager about the possiblities of the rod for OEM production engines.
I personally own a cam lobe (8620 billet) that was flat sided by a Jager rod when the engine did not have enough clearance between the rod and the camshaft.
I talked to Kirk after NHRA banned his 415gm Pro Stock rod after it had been found in an engine along with some other items that had been "Transformed". Two weeks later IHRA banned them. I was with him at Bristol in '02 when myself and Mark Cathell took Kirk around to talk to the NHRA teams. Only 1 team at the time would listen. That team went on to dominate PS in NHRA.
I know that in IHRA testing the rods were worth a peak of 52HP on an engine and an average of 35HP throughout the powerband after removing the Ti rods that were 100gms heaver per rod then the Jagers.
Marketing BS doesn't get outlawed, a better mouse trap does....