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Old 11-28-2007, 01:42 PM   #1
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Default 180 Degree Headers

Very hard finding info on this, I search and come up with people asking the same qeustions. But with hardly any answers, in grass roots motor sports they had a older Z car with a v8 swap and he was running these headers and picked up alot of power compared with normal long tubes..
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:54 PM   #2
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Very hard finding info on this, I search and come up with people asking the same qeustions. But with hardly any answers, in grass roots motor sports they had a older Z car with a v8 swap and he was running these headers and picked up alot of power compared with normal long tubes..
They are used to "sinc" the exhaust pulses by puttin the tubes in the collector to keep the pulses close together to help scavenging.The tubes cross under the car to get in the correct collector.

If you have ever been to a pavement latemodel race and some cars sound like a Ferrari when they go by, those have 180* headers.

Or most original Ford GT-40's have 180* headers.

David
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:28 PM   #3
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There's something in the latest HOT ROD about this... anyone have the link to the website they give?
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:22 AM   #4
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There's something in the latest HOT ROD about this... anyone have the link to the website they give?
headerdesign.com
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY View Post
They are used to "sinc" the exhaust pulses by puttin the tubes in the collector to keep the pulses close together to help scavenging.The tubes cross under the car to get in the correct collector.

If you have ever been to a pavement latemodel race and some cars sound like a Ferrari when they go by, those have 180* headers.

Or most original Ford GT-40's have 180* headers.

David
180 headers are used on 2-plane crank V8s (like almost all OEM engines with the exception of Ferrari and perhaps 1 or 2 others) to keep the exhaust pulses at an even 180 crankshaft spacing.

On a Gen I& II SBC with a 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order, 8 & 4 fire 90 apart on one bank and 5 & 7 on the other bank. If you crossover 2 cyliders on each bank to the other bank's collector, you get 1-4-6-7 paired and 2-3-5-8 paired which give the 180 pulses in each collector. This can help exhaust tuning.The Ford Indy eingne and the GT40 of the 1960's may have been some of the first 2-plane crank V8s to use 180 headers. They do sound like flat crank engines.

4>2>1 headers also pair cylinders firing 180 apart at the first merge.
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:54 AM   #6
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180 headers are used on 2-plane crank V8s (like almost all OEM engines with the exception of Ferrari and perhaps 1 or 2 others) to keep the exhaust pulses at an even 180 crankshaft spacing.

On a Gen I& II SBC with a 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order, 8 & 4 fire 90 apart on one bank and 5 & 7 on the other bank. If you crossover 2 cyliders on each bank to the other bank's collector, you get 1-4-6-7 paired and 2-3-5-8 paired which give the 180 pulses in each collector. This can help exhaust tuning.The Ford Indy eingne and the GT40 of the 1960's may have been some of the first 2-plane crank V8s to use 180 headers. They do sound like flat crank engines.

4>2>1 headers also pair cylinders firing 180 apart at the first merge.
So a 4>2>1 header has the same advantages without the packaging problems? Is there a 4>2>1 header design for the f- or y- body?
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:32 AM   #7
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Wouldn't the primary length on equal length 180* headers on a non-flat crank V8 be excessive in any possible packaging format? This is in the off chance that packaging that nightmare is even possible. I understand the benefits, but wow, that's a lot of convoluted tubing.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:28 AM   #8
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Wouldn't the primary length on equal length 180* headers on a non-flat crank V8 be excessive in any possible packaging format? This is in the off chance that packaging that nightmare is even possible. I understand the benefits, but wow, that's a lot of convoluted tubing.
For a street car, yes. Sometimes you can use the over-the-top designs in circle track cars. Much of the time you have to sacrifice correct primary length to get them in the car. That's not good.

They are not very popular. Let's just take the bull by the horns and convert to flat-crank V8s.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:44 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gametech View Post
Wouldn't the primary length on equal length 180* headers on a non-flat crank V8 be excessive in any possible packaging format? This is in the off chance that packaging that nightmare is even possible. I understand the benefits, but wow, that's a lot of convoluted tubing.
Ever seen a GT-40? Not a GT, but an original. The headers look like your intestines.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:27 PM   #11
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Back from the dead to tell you its WORTH the effort!!! Just listen to this!

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Old 01-25-2017, 10:28 AM   #12
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HI "413" , YES and the Ford GT was what I used to "cut" my GUMS.
I worked with BUTFOY (Roy Butfoy), Granny (John Collins), Scatter **** (Carrol Smith) at Alan Mann Racing.

Later I worked with the G7-A in the Can Am racing series.
At first we had some of the Ford's 427 TP engines, a bit to slow.
Then he gave us some of the BOSS 494 AL engines to fit, we were FAST.

We had to make our own transaxle out of the Ford Top Loader four speed AND fit a Ford truck 12" crown needed for Torque/HP life in a 24 hour race.

The SADDEST test day was when Ken Miles tested at Riverside with the bad "aero" of the early MARK-IV. (No Rear Spoiler)

Lance
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:34 PM   #13
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Lance,

Do you have any photos of the transaxle you speak of; or any other information you're willing to share?

I grew up around the SoCal racing scene, so many of the references you make are familiar to me. Can-Am, Trans-Am at Riverside was great stuff.

Andy1
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:40 PM   #14
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That's some great history there...

I'm not from around here, but I've read a lot of stuff about it, some of the best racing on the planet.


Lance, I'll be calling/visiting you soon, I'm just sorting out some stuff.
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:09 AM   #15
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Default Gt-40 + t-44

Hi Andy, I do have some pictures, they are "film" pictures.
I thank you for your interest.
I raced my Lola 333cs at Riverside Raceway many times, the Intrepid GB1. (1980's)

Lee Holman uses the "Ford" style Kar Kraft T-44 transmission in his Holman Mark II.

Yes I have much information, just ask ?

Yes Joecar, you are welcome to visit.

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Old 09-07-2017, 01:10 PM   #16
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Lance, did you run the SCCA pro CanAm races, or Club races? John Morton had his shop adjacent to a guy I did a lot of business with. I remember he had a F5000/CanAm car, but don't remember what chassis....Might have been a Lola T333?
My neighbor, Mike Williams, designed the bodywork/aero for the '77 DB1 Schkee CanAm car. Mike was originally from Chicago, hence the association with Bob McKee. He and I did a number of projects together.

Andy1
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180, 421, circle, degree, equal, firing, headers, length, ls1, mod, motor, order, sbc, track, v8

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