T-tops to Hardtop?
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From: Yelm, Wa
Originally Posted by Fbodfather
You may have to replace the gaskets....depending on where the water enters. One other thing...have you ever replaced your windshield? If so, the water MAY be coming in thru the top of the windshield header....and appearing to come from the T-top. When the windshield is replaced, ALL the sealant MUST be removed..and some shops don't take the time to do it correctly...the windshield, therefore will not seal...and airflow at highway speeds will cause the water to enter ......just a thought.
And you are correct...all non-t-top cars have the cutouts for T-top...simply has a composite roof panel attached........
And you are correct...all non-t-top cars have the cutouts for T-top...simply has a composite roof panel attached........
(your friendly NW Pest)
Tammy
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From: The other, other, other A-Town, NM
Originally Posted by WJ SOM SS
Don't try to tell us that a hardtop car has more structural integerity than a T-top car, because it does not. Pull down a headliner on a hardtop car some time and have a look for yourself.... WJ 
Staging Lane
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Originally Posted by MJSLude99
Not disagreeing, but I always thought that the hardtops did have more structural integrity. Why don't the hardtops have more rigidity if this is the case?
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
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From: The other, other, other A-Town, NM
Originally Posted by Fbodfather
Simply because the roof already has the cutouts...and the roof panel is sheet molded compound.....we did extensive studies when the car was developed and there is no additional structural strength due to not having a T-roof.
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Originally Posted by Fbodfather
Simply because the roof already has the cutouts...and the roof panel is sheet molded compound.....we did extensive studies when the car was developed and there is no additional structural strength due to not having a T-roof.
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From: Yelm, Wa
Originally Posted by RevGTO
Sounds like you're a GM engineer involved in the development of the 4th gen f-body. Or did you sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night??
I can tell you He is NOT an Engineer for GM but He does work for GM, & was Very Involved in the fbody Oh & He sleeps in High priced Hotels when hes not in town.
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Originally Posted by jlaw
I've done some research because I'm considering having my hardtop converted to T-top or Targa. It's not cheap. Only thing is, people keep telling me to keep my hardtop because it's rare (someone said there were a total of 4 made, but who knows.)
If you're serious about the switch, the best way to do it would be to buy the roof off of a hardtop car and have a body shop separate the old one and re-weld, then re-paint. Switching from T-top to hardtop would probably be a good bit cheaper than the other way around.
If you're serious about the switch, the best way to do it would be to buy the roof off of a hardtop car and have a body shop separate the old one and re-weld, then re-paint. Switching from T-top to hardtop would probably be a good bit cheaper than the other way around.
I got a piece of my old roof sitting here in my office as a paperweight, and as I look at it I can't help but wonder...
How exactly is he supposed to get one off without breaking it into a million pieces? And how exactly do you weld fiberglass? (our roof is NOT metal)
If he really wants a hard top for his f-body, it should be easy IMO...
Good luck with the project and let us know how it turns out!
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From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by BigDaddyZ28
How exactly is he supposed to get one off without breaking it into a million pieces? And how exactly do you weld fiberglass? (our roof is NOT metal)
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From: The other, other, other A-Town, NM
Originally Posted by Fbodfather
Simply because the roof already has the cutouts...and the roof panel is sheet molded compound.....we did extensive studies when the car was developed and there is no additional structural strength due to not having a T-roof.
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
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From: Beaumont, TX
Originally Posted by krazzycowgirl
I can tell you He is NOT an Engineer for GM but He does work for GM, & was Very Involved in the fbody Oh & He sleeps in High priced Hotels when hes not in town.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-members/240694-just-fbodfather.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156763
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154561
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230374
https://ls1tech.com/forums/appearance-detailing/244233-wheel-well-signed.html
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From: Yelm, Wa
Originally Posted by ACW
Here are some threads which discuss Scott and his involvement with GM / F-bodies
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240694
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156763
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154561
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230374
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244233
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240694
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156763
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154561
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230374
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244233
I have personally known Scott for almost 5yrs now He gives me a bad time everytime i see him.
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From: Indianapolis, IN
You may have to replace the gaskets....depending on where the water enters. One other thing...have you ever replaced your windshield? If so, the water MAY be coming in thru the top of the windshield header....and appearing to come from the T-top. When the windshield is replaced, ALL the sealant MUST be removed..and some shops don't take the time to do it correctly...the windshield, therefore will not seal...and airflow at highway speeds will cause the water to enter ......just a thought.
And you are correct...all non-t-top cars have the cutouts for T-top...simply has a composite roof panel attached........
And you are correct...all non-t-top cars have the cutouts for T-top...simply has a composite roof panel attached........
Simply because the roof already has the cutouts...and the roof panel is sheet molded compound.....we did extensive studies when the car was developed and there is no additional structural strength due to not having a T-roof.
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
In terms, however, of road racing, it's my sense you'd be better off with a non-t-top car in case of rollover....the glass shatters....composite material WILL come apart...but the threshold for that happening is much greater......
I disagree with your statements above thay say the hardtop & t-top chassis stiffness is the "same." On hardtop cars, there are two A to B pillar braces that connect the sail panel area to the windshield. These braces look very rigid in tension/compression and will increase the torsional rigidity of the chassis (although by how much I do not know). All t-top cars started out from the factory as if they were going to be a hardtop car. Then, after the car is welded together, those two braces are removed for the t-top cars. If you measured torsional rigidity of the chassis (in terms of 1st mode natural frequency, something GM engineers did when they designed these cars), I bet you'd find that those braces result in a significantly higher frequency than a car with just t-tops (ie. hardtop chassis stiffer). Sounds like you work for GM so if you have this data, please post it up or PM me.
Here's the chassis stiffness data I was able to locate on 4th gen f-body's, however, I could only find info on t-top cars. GM would have done this testing for all of the configurations though.
1st mode nat frequency bending = 23Hz (3rd gen is 18Hz)
1st mode nat frequency torsional = 20Hz (3rd gen is 16Hz)
A higher number here is better and means the chassis is stiffer. Again, if you have data from the hardtop car, please post it up!
Thanks!
6 liter designs has some really cool pieces to make it a one piece targa top, if I ever have an extra grand to throw at my car I think it would be cool to get.
So if your willing to spend 600+ to get rid of the leaks for good there's an option lol
So if your willing to spend 600+ to get rid of the leaks for good there's an option lol
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From: USS Enterprise 1701
Find a hard top. Cut out the metal pieces need to make the conversion from t-top to hard top. Then add roof panel, ect.
Frankly, I would just leave it a T-top and call it a day.
