First, the answer to what most people will want to know is... 38lbs. total weight savings with the chromemoly k-member and chromemoly a-arms. I weighed everything side by side to verify, and I'm pretty sure my scale is accurate. Looks as if the 43-48lbs savings claims by the manufacturers are bogus.

As far as ease of installation, it wasn't difficult. As far as fit and "completeness," the PA racing pieces are somewhat lacking. First, they came with absolutely no instructions or documentation of any kind. No bolts/nuts included, either. You have to buy nuts/washers for the motor mounts, since they now bolt to steel straps instead of the threaded holes in the stock crossmember. Four of the factory bolts that actually hold the k-member in place are way too long to use with the tubular piece, so shorter metric bolts/washers must be purchased for this. There are also some little tabs that secure the brake lines to the crossmember that thread in to the stock pieces, but once again must be replaced with bolts, nuts, and washers.

Fit/finish: The black powdercoating is very nice looking. However, a couple of things didn't fit as they should, which really irritates me on $1000 worth of aftermarket parts. I had to cut a small notch out of the unibody to allow room for the new k-member to bolt up. Part of the motor mount attachment strap on the driver's side hit the frame, and that's where I had to cut. Also, the lower shock bolt tubes did not line up properly on one of the a-arms, so I had to use a rat tail file to elongate the hole on the bottom of the shock.

Overall, I'd say the PA racing pieces are OK, but I shouldn't have run into the issues I did. Not when this stuff cost what it did. There should be at least some basic documentation that specifies any additional fasteners needed, or for a $500 k-member, they could include them. I also specified that I did not want a swaybar mounting provision, but there is one on the a-arms anyway (which in no way would not account for the discrepency in the weight, since these tabs couldn't weigh more than a few ounces). I ordered everything on 12/3, and the k-member showed up 12/24, and the a-arms showed up 12/27.

 

So it looks like my mild steel stuff will only be about 35# ligther than stock total. =/

 

George can you break the weight down by stock aarms - CM aarms, stock cross member - CM cross member.

I just ordered the aarms a couple weeks ago, on a claim that they saved around 16#. If that isn't the case I want my money back!

Thanks.

 

Should be interesting to see how my Anthony Jones K-member goes in. The guy that will be helping me has a PA, we plan to do a direct comparision between the two.

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: WILWAXU ]</p>

 

Terry, what I actually did was remove the stock crossmember, and weighed it with the control arms and motor mounts still attached. Then when I got everything assembled, weighed the PA k-member, a-arms, and motor mounts all assembled. I didn't weigh everything individually, just whole assemblies...

 

I took all my PA pieces to a business that had a very accurate table sized scale. so their would be no issues with ...holding said pieces to get a proper measurement. I never weighed my stock stuff, because basically the new pieces weighed exactly what Vernon told me they would weigh.

Guess I could carry my stock stuff and weigh it, but I'm not really worried. The stuff is light. The K-member is less than half the weight of another brand k-member that was being installed at the same time mine was. I'm satisfied.

I'd be more interested in seeing some comparison numbers on the stock k-member, and arms.

 

Gearge, thanks for the write-up. I have the same stuff on the way. Any chance of giving us an approx number and size of bolts needed? It would be nice to have all the hardware BEFORE starting the project.

 

George, I saw many of the things you saw. I measured the savings at 44.5#, however, that could be off. I took my stockers out as a complete assembly as I had bought new factory fasteners for the a-arms, so, I did not take mine off the stock k-member. I then weighed me on my scale, then picked up the whole stock assembly...repeated with the completed PAR assembly.

Nevertheless, they are nice pieces but not perfect. One of my biggest gripes was that they were shipped poorly...just thrown loosely in two crappy (thin-walled) cardboard boxes and the powdercoat got scratched up badly and the alignment tabs on top of the k-member both were bent. I wasn't too worried as I knew they'd get scratched up during use, but still...

I am very happy with them, but the overall execution in assembly and shipping could be improved. For all but a hardcore car, I'd recommend just the chromemoly k-member for the bang-for-the-buck factor.

 

One other thing...

For the PAR chromemoly pieces:

Each a-arm w/o fasteners but w/swaybar mounts = 7#

K-member (w/motor mount provisions & LT header notches) = 17.5#


I only have the factory weights as a completed assembly per my above post. With all the different options available, there will be small variations in weights. The chromemoly bar is lighter than the steel, but I think the a-arms are about the same.

 

[quote]Originally posted by JimmyKash:
<strong>If any of you guys have problems with you stuff, just give them a call

Jason and Vernon are honestly the some of the best people in the business.

They have a huge 'customer satisfaction' attitude. From everything i've ever done with them they've

-answered all of my emails quickly and explained everything i needed
-was very nice working with me on what i wanted and needed
-only charged me shipping when i had it sent back to take some rack mounts off (thirdgen) and get it powdercoated (i originally had it come un coated)

i haven't been in this racing game long, but i've dealty with plenty of ******** already. And these guys are definately not ******** and I'M NOT saying any of you guys think they are, just saying thats all

Plus, the more feedback they get...the more they can fix things that aren't what they should be.

just my .02</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm sure they are good guys. Like my comments on the packaging, some vendors really take the time to pack stuff right (SLP for example) and others just throw it in a box. Guys like PAR make good stuff, just need some open, honest feedback to make the delivery/execution that much better.

 

Very true, so just give them a call.

i'm sure they'd welcome the feedback

now what they DO with that feedback will be what to watch

 

[quote]Originally posted by ONYXSS:
<strong>Any chance of giving us an approx number and size of bolts needed? It would be nice to have all the hardware BEFORE starting the project.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If I wasn't such a scatterbrain, I would've written everything down... I don't remember the sizes, but you'll need nuts/washers to go on the backside of the motor mount bolts (8 of them), and you'll need shorter bolts to replace the front two crossmember bolts on each side (4 bolts all together). I wish I had made a note of the sizes. <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">

 

Oh, and as far as a "customer service" point of view goes, my biggest gripe is the lack of included fasteners or at least a list of what's needed.

It also seems like everyone's coming up with different weights. I weighed my stuff on an old bathroom scale. It tells my weight accurately, but maybe it's a little off with additional weight on it or something. I've done some other weight reduction stuff since the last time I weighed the car, so I'll have a pretty good idea of a total weight savings of everything I've done once I weigh the car again soon.

I'll finish by saying overall I'm happy with the PA parts. There are a few things that could be improved upon, but my install could've gone a lot worse. Even with the two trips to the hardware store, lunch, and having to file out a shock mounting hole, total install time was around 4.5 hours.

 

GeorgeC do you have a list of the nuts,bolts and washers you used. Also do you have picture of portion you notched. I am doing this swap on jack stands and really dont want a lot of major hassles.

Gary

 

Man George that would make a cool tech write up!
I'd do it myself but I had the piece installed when my engine got swapped...just easier to do it then.

 

[quote]Originally posted by red ws6 99:
<strong>GeorgeC do you have a list of the nuts,bolts and washers you used. Also do you have picture of portion you notched. I am doing this swap on jack stands and really dont want a lot of major hassles.

Gary</strong><hr></blockquote>

Like I stated above, I didn't write anything down. I just took one of the motor mount bolts with me to get the right nuts, and took one of the short stock crossmember bolts with me to match it up to another bolt.

 

[quote]Originally posted by PaiN:
<strong>Man George that would make a cool tech write up!
I'd do it myself but I had the piece installed when my engine got swapped...just easier to do it then.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I actually thought of "documenting" everything with my digital camera so I could post some pics, but once I get working on something, I tend to get carried away with it and try to get it finished.

The little section I had to cut off the car will be obvious to anyone doing an install once the new k-member is put up in the car. I will go look, but I doubt a picture at this point will help, since you can't really see it with the k-member bolted in place...

I'll go snap some various pics real quick anyway, and post them here in a little while.

 

This is the best shot I could get showing where I had to trim the body a little bit... It's really hard to see, though.

 

If any of you guys have problems with you stuff, just give them a call

Jason and Vernon are honestly the some of the best people in the business.

They have a huge 'customer satisfaction' attitude. From everything i've ever done with them they've

-answered all of my emails quickly and explained everything i needed
-was very nice working with me on what i wanted and needed
-only charged me shipping when i had it sent back to take some rack mounts off (thirdgen) and get it powdercoated (i originally had it come un coated)

i haven't been in this racing game long, but i've dealty with plenty of ******** already. And these guys are definately not ******** and I'M NOT saying any of you guys think they are, just saying thats all

Plus, the more feedback they get...the more they can fix things that aren't what they should be.

just my .02

 

I installed my PA K-MEMBER & A-ARMS (steel) and only had to buy 8 nuts and bolts for the motor mounts . Reused all other bolts and did the job by myself in about 4 1/2 hours Then took to have aligned and took then about 2hours .Never ran into any major problems with installation.Going to help WILWAXU with his to see the difference.Only complaint here is the ride seems a bit more harsh over bumps.