What is everyone's opinion on trans temperature?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: akron/canton, ohio
i still cant figure out why my 4l60e's temp wont stay under 190 in the summer with a deep pan and b&m 24k cooler. anyway...i think next year im going to add a second. anyone see any reason why that might not be a good idea?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Lexington, NC
I dont know how adding another cooler would affect the temps. It sounds logical reading it but then you would be running the fluid through 3 coolers(stock,1st,and 2nd) the fluid might be cooled as far as it could go by then. Also if your tranny is too cold the converter will NOT lock up. Good Luck, let us know how this turns out.
WeS
WeS
I have a large transmission cooler mounted where the fans pull air across it. With air temperatures in the 50's last Friday night at the track I let my transmission cool completely before making a run. I do run my fans almost constantly at the track so I'm sure the tranny probably never warmed to any significant temperature. I had slippage and it felt as though I hit the revlimiter on both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. On the second pass after another cool down the same thing. On the drive home after warming somewhat it was fine again.
I think too cold does have an effect.
Never had this problem during the summer. I have checked my temp via Auto Tap during the summer and 180s is as high as I ever saw. Too bad I did not have my Auto Tap with me last Friday night.
I'm taking my Auto Tap and some card board to cover the cooler if necessary next time out.
Without the cooler in summer temperatures my transmission would get to well over 200 degrees with this converter. If you install a converter you definitely need a cooler in the summer if you want your tranny to stay less than 200 degrees.
I think too cold does have an effect.
Never had this problem during the summer. I have checked my temp via Auto Tap during the summer and 180s is as high as I ever saw. Too bad I did not have my Auto Tap with me last Friday night.
I'm taking my Auto Tap and some card board to cover the cooler if necessary next time out.
Without the cooler in summer temperatures my transmission would get to well over 200 degrees with this converter. If you install a converter you definitely need a cooler in the summer if you want your tranny to stay less than 200 degrees.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: akron/canton, ohio
at this point, im not worried about it staying too cool at all. it has a deep pan and a b&m 24k cooler now. around town driving the trans will get to 195F, if i can save 20F more, it will be well worth it. i think you have to go below 150F to have it "too cold", maybe even more.
As previously posted last week, I had some less than desirable transmission shifts with my big cooler unblocked and fans pulling air across it before making a pass in 40 degrees weather. I can only assume the transmission was very cold.
Here are some results on Auto Tap tranny temps last night at the track and on the drive from the track. All temperatures are with more than 3/4 of my tranny cooler blocked with cardboard. Did not get any with the cooler unblocked last night.
On the highway with an outside temperature of 39 degrees the transmission never rose more than 131 degrees. Engine temperature was 174-176 with my 160 t stat. At the track my temperatures rose to 150's maybe 160 highest while allowing it to idle in the staging lanes and after a pass. On one pass with tranny temp in the 120s the transmission shifted fine.
In approximately 3 miles of stop and start driving temps rose to high 140s, low 150s. Engine temperature rose to 187-188 which is where my fans are set. Then quickly came down to approximately 181 before the fans turned off. After driving again at freeway speeds the engine temp again lowered to 174-176.
Should I taken the block off the cooler I can imagine how low the temps would have been.
Until I can get more info, probably best to have the tranny temp no less than 110-120+ before making full throttle passes.
Here are some results on Auto Tap tranny temps last night at the track and on the drive from the track. All temperatures are with more than 3/4 of my tranny cooler blocked with cardboard. Did not get any with the cooler unblocked last night.
On the highway with an outside temperature of 39 degrees the transmission never rose more than 131 degrees. Engine temperature was 174-176 with my 160 t stat. At the track my temperatures rose to 150's maybe 160 highest while allowing it to idle in the staging lanes and after a pass. On one pass with tranny temp in the 120s the transmission shifted fine.
In approximately 3 miles of stop and start driving temps rose to high 140s, low 150s. Engine temperature rose to 187-188 which is where my fans are set. Then quickly came down to approximately 181 before the fans turned off. After driving again at freeway speeds the engine temp again lowered to 174-176.
Should I taken the block off the cooler I can imagine how low the temps would have been.
Until I can get more info, probably best to have the tranny temp no less than 110-120+ before making full throttle passes.
Last edited by Larry; Dec 7, 2003 at 07:34 AM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Troy, AL
Originally Posted by onebadz
I dont know how adding another cooler would affect the temps. It sounds logical reading it but then you would be running the fluid through 3 coolers(stock,1st,and 2nd) the fluid might be cooled as far as it could go by then. Also if your tranny is too cold the converter will NOT lock up. Good Luck, let us know how this turns out.
WeS
WeS
I think the reason some people don't see the kind of temps that they want is because their cooler is run before the radiator cooler. The radiator will bring the temp UP towards the coolant temp if the the trans flud temp is cooler than the engine coolant.
I don't know how cold the fluid would have to be before it failed to lock the converter but I've never seen it happen. What confused people is that the converter will not lock until the PCM goes into closed loop. People incorrectly assume that the PCM is waiting on the tranny temp to reach a certain spot.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Farmingdale NJ
Well, I did an A-tap on the 24 mile (mostly highway) commute home from work the other day.
Highest temps I saw were 145, highway temp was 135!!!!! No issues with converter lockup, and no percievable issues with shifting. I still feel that is a litte too cold though... ?
Highest temps I saw were 145, highway temp was 135!!!!! No issues with converter lockup, and no percievable issues with shifting. I still feel that is a litte too cold though... ?
Originally Posted by Pete2k_Z28
Well, I did an A-tap on the 24 mile (mostly highway) commute home from work the other day.
Highest temps I saw were 145, highway temp was 135!!!!! No issues with converter lockup, and no percievable issues with shifting. I still feel that is a litte too cold though... ?
Highest temps I saw were 145, highway temp was 135!!!!! No issues with converter lockup, and no percievable issues with shifting. I still feel that is a litte too cold though... ?
Do you have a tranny cooler? What thermostat? What was the approximate ambient temperature?
Sounds like yours is running about the same as mine blocked off. A cooler may be a little too cool for winter. What we need is a cooler mounted where forward motion air does not flow through it but with a thermostatically controlled fan.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Farmingdale NJ
Originally Posted by Larry
Pete,
Do you have a tranny cooler? What thermostat? What was the approximate ambient temperature?
Sounds like yours is running about the same as mine blocked off. A cooler may be a little too cool for winter. What we need is a cooler mounted where forward motion air does not flow through it but with a thermostatically controlled fan.
Do you have a tranny cooler? What thermostat? What was the approximate ambient temperature?
Sounds like yours is running about the same as mine blocked off. A cooler may be a little too cool for winter. What we need is a cooler mounted where forward motion air does not flow through it but with a thermostatically controlled fan.
Sorry Larry, I should have been more detailed in my last post.
I have the B&M 24,000 GVW cooler, mounted "Dope" style (horizontally on the right/front of the car, just ahead of the air dam). I have the stock thermostat and totally stock tuning, so fans are set at stock temperature.
Outside air temperature was probably in the 30's or so. The trans has a Yank SS3600, shift kit, billet servo, other internal upgrades and mods, etc. and stock steel trans pan.
Highway temps were obviously mostly in 4th gear with converter locked. But even in the 8 or 10 stop and go miles (and I really went "GO" a few times to see how it would affect temps) it never got above 145 degrees.
But you're thinking the same thing that prompted me to start this thread, when is too cold? I'm thinking 135 highway is a little TOO cold, and was considering blocking off all or part of my B&M cooler as well until spring just as you are.
Mabey I'll try it if this white crap outside ever goes away
Originally Posted by Pete2k_Z28
Sorry Larry, I should have been more detailed in my last post.
I have the B&M 24,000 GVW cooler, mounted "Dope" style (horizontally on the right/front of the car, just ahead of the air dam). I have the stock thermostat and totally stock tuning, so fans are set at stock temperature.
Outside air temperature was probably in the 30's or so. The trans has a Yank SS3600, shift kit, billet servo, other internal upgrades and mods, etc. and stock steel trans pan.
Highway temps were obviously mostly in 4th gear with converter locked. But even in the 8 or 10 stop and go miles (and I really went "GO" a few times to see how it would affect temps) it never got above 145 degrees.
But you're thinking the same thing that prompted me to start this thread, when is too cold? I'm thinking 135 highway is a little TOO cold, and was considering blocking off all or part of my B&M cooler as well until spring just as you are.
Mabey I'll try it if this white crap outside ever goes away
I have the B&M 24,000 GVW cooler, mounted "Dope" style (horizontally on the right/front of the car, just ahead of the air dam). I have the stock thermostat and totally stock tuning, so fans are set at stock temperature.
Outside air temperature was probably in the 30's or so. The trans has a Yank SS3600, shift kit, billet servo, other internal upgrades and mods, etc. and stock steel trans pan.
Highway temps were obviously mostly in 4th gear with converter locked. But even in the 8 or 10 stop and go miles (and I really went "GO" a few times to see how it would affect temps) it never got above 145 degrees.
But you're thinking the same thing that prompted me to start this thread, when is too cold? I'm thinking 135 highway is a little TOO cold, and was considering blocking off all or part of my B&M cooler as well until spring just as you are.
Mabey I'll try it if this white crap outside ever goes away
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Doniphan, MO
FWIW:The following statements are from the article “Transmission Coolers, Part 2” found in a “Transmission Digest”, November 2003 issue, by Wayne Russell.
Wayne is president of Russell Auto Inc., in Manchester NH, and an associate member of the Technical Automotive Specialties Committee a group of recognized industry technical specialists and transmission rebuilders.
“Cooler flow is very important, and we are seeing most vehicle manufacturers increasing oil line sizes from 5/16 inch to 3/8 inch. Although a small increase, this can improve flow by more than 30%. This can make a big difference in keeping a transmission cool and lubricating vital transmission components.
“Another flow problem is in cold weather. Not all of us live in the tropics, and winter conditions can be quite brutal. ATF gels around –32ºF. Even at 0-10ºF, if we start a vehicle and drive off, the transmission lube system will be dry…Cooler bypass systems help this problem.”
“Remember that a cooler installed in front of the A/C or radiator will effect these systems” also’ “…water transfers heat better than antifreeze, and if you have too much antifreeze, the cooling system will not cool effectively.”
Wayne is president of Russell Auto Inc., in Manchester NH, and an associate member of the Technical Automotive Specialties Committee a group of recognized industry technical specialists and transmission rebuilders.
“Cooler flow is very important, and we are seeing most vehicle manufacturers increasing oil line sizes from 5/16 inch to 3/8 inch. Although a small increase, this can improve flow by more than 30%. This can make a big difference in keeping a transmission cool and lubricating vital transmission components.
“Another flow problem is in cold weather. Not all of us live in the tropics, and winter conditions can be quite brutal. ATF gels around –32ºF. Even at 0-10ºF, if we start a vehicle and drive off, the transmission lube system will be dry…Cooler bypass systems help this problem.”
“Remember that a cooler installed in front of the A/C or radiator will effect these systems” also’ “…water transfers heat better than antifreeze, and if you have too much antifreeze, the cooling system will not cool effectively.”
Supersport:
A potential problem with adding a second cooler is the restriction in flow caused by the cooler (see other post on this issue). I'd look at other airflow issues or changing my fan settings to use them to pull more air and keep everything cooler.
A potential problem with adding a second cooler is the restriction in flow caused by the cooler (see other post on this issue). I'd look at other airflow issues or changing my fan settings to use them to pull more air and keep everything cooler.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 344
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From: akron/canton, ohio
ragtop...thanks for pointing that out, i failed to take that into consideration.
however, ive also tried the fans as well. i have a 160 thermo and a manual fan switch which i would turn on directly after i pulled out of my driveway and leave on in around town driving. still 190-195F. maybe the big 28k race cooler would be a better alternative to try first?
however, ive also tried the fans as well. i have a 160 thermo and a manual fan switch which i would turn on directly after i pulled out of my driveway and leave on in around town driving. still 190-195F. maybe the big 28k race cooler would be a better alternative to try first?
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Central, MA
(digging up old posts here....)
For what it's worth:
My truck has a factory external cooler, in addition to the internal-radiator one. In the winter my tranny temps will sometimes NEVER get off the bottom of the gauge, which is 100*F.
In the warm weather here, just cruising, I normall see about 125 on the gauge.
I just installed E-fans this weekend, and I've actually been nervous because now my temps have been pretty steady around 150...
I guess I'm still doing okay.
For what it's worth:
My truck has a factory external cooler, in addition to the internal-radiator one. In the winter my tranny temps will sometimes NEVER get off the bottom of the gauge, which is 100*F.
In the warm weather here, just cruising, I normall see about 125 on the gauge.
I just installed E-fans this weekend, and I've actually been nervous because now my temps have been pretty steady around 150...
I guess I'm still doing okay.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
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From: Doniphan, MO
thank you, "2002-4.8" I've been looking for that chart for a while. The chart is not new, in fact, it was published in the 60's and the numbers are still the same. That's because heat is the big tranny killer.
Reading all of these posts makes me wonder??
Where does everyone have their Trans Temp senders installed?
I am running a Yank SY3500 with B&M 24K & B&M deep pan. Currently i have my sender installed in the pan. Typically i run in the 150-170 range. Even in Hot Dallas Traffic i don't get over 185..
Car is "tuned" & has 146K on the original 4L60E.... & approx. 15K on the Yank. How bout that!!!!
Personally, i like the 4L60E. It has served me well..
Where does everyone have their Trans Temp senders installed?
I am running a Yank SY3500 with B&M 24K & B&M deep pan. Currently i have my sender installed in the pan. Typically i run in the 150-170 range. Even in Hot Dallas Traffic i don't get over 185..
Car is "tuned" & has 146K on the original 4L60E.... & approx. 15K on the Yank. How bout that!!!!
Personally, i like the 4L60E. It has served me well..