6L80E in a 4th gen?
From all the info in this thread alone I can tell that its not practical, there are cheaper/better options for said power levels of 800+. I was more curious if anyone has completed the swap. Not like I am in any position for a 5k trans swap.
There have been a lot of questions raised recently about this swap. My first question is, Why? There are more than enough 4L60e builders out there proving the capabilities of the 4L60e day in and day out (RPM being one of them).
The 6L80e is stronger (In STOCK form) and will bolt up to an LS1. The price of wiring, crossmember modification and purchase price of the transmission will exceed the price of even our best built 4L60e. The gear spacing in a 6L80e is worse than a 4L80e for the 1-2 shift. The overdrive is no better. My best advise is to go drive a car or truck with a 6L80e in it. They are always shifting. It is very annoying IMO. The cost and headache involved in swapping a 6L80e into a 4th gen is not worth it what so ever.
The 6L80e is stronger (In STOCK form) and will bolt up to an LS1. The price of wiring, crossmember modification and purchase price of the transmission will exceed the price of even our best built 4L60e. The gear spacing in a 6L80e is worse than a 4L80e for the 1-2 shift. The overdrive is no better. My best advise is to go drive a car or truck with a 6L80e in it. They are always shifting. It is very annoying IMO. The cost and headache involved in swapping a 6L80e into a 4th gen is not worth it what so ever.
Last edited by odarabla; Feb 17, 2011 at 10:18 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: League City, TX
Huh if I had endless piles of cash sitting around my house I might attempt such a swap, just to say I'm the first in a 4th gen 
But from the sound of it it really doesn't seem to be worth it. Wish I was more of a transmission expert, from the way you guys sound, I can't tell if a 6L would be good or bad for drag racing lol. I prefer majority street driving vs drag racing myself, though drag racing is a fun way to really push a car in a way you can't on the street.
Sounds like 4L80E is definitely the way to go then for all high horsepowered 4th gen Fbodies who want to run consistently fast times down the track and have a near (I stress the NEAR part) unbreakable trans. I wouldn't bother with a built 4L60E @ 750 or above that's basically just asking to waste your money IMO. Like a little timed grenade right by your right hand
But from the sound of it it really doesn't seem to be worth it. Wish I was more of a transmission expert, from the way you guys sound, I can't tell if a 6L would be good or bad for drag racing lol. I prefer majority street driving vs drag racing myself, though drag racing is a fun way to really push a car in a way you can't on the street. Sounds like 4L80E is definitely the way to go then for all high horsepowered 4th gen Fbodies who want to run consistently fast times down the track and have a near (I stress the NEAR part) unbreakable trans. I wouldn't bother with a built 4L60E @ 750 or above that's basically just asking to waste your money IMO. Like a little timed grenade right by your right hand
Ive been continuously trying to talk Circle D into using my car as the test bed for this swap, even told em i would make the crossmember myself. they dont wanna, it will be extremely expensive and time consuming and the question is, Is there a market for it? right now, the answer is no. that may change with time, probably as the aftermarket further develops for the trans.
One reason is certain, if the swap is done then it will either need a stand alone trans control computer or the PCM and main harness must be swapped with one from a LS3/6l80 car like a vette or 5th gen.
One reason is certain, if the swap is done then it will either need a stand alone trans control computer or the PCM and main harness must be swapped with one from a LS3/6l80 car like a vette or 5th gen.
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Ive been continuously trying to talk Circle D into using my car as the test bed for this swap, even told em i would make the crossmember myself. they dont wanna, it will be extremely expensive and time consuming and the question is, Is there a market for it? right now, the answer is no. that may change with time, probably as the aftermarket further develops for the trans.
One reason is certain, if the swap is done then it will either need a stand alone trans control computer or the PCM and main harness must be swapped with one from a LS3/6l80 car like a vette or 5th gen.
One reason is certain, if the swap is done then it will either need a stand alone trans control computer or the PCM and main harness must be swapped with one from a LS3/6l80 car like a vette or 5th gen.
If 5th gen uses a Body Module, like the G8 Pontiac, you would be better off staying away form it's harness.
I believe if you check with Mast Motorsport they have a ECM and harness that will work with LS2 engine as well as LS3 & LS7 with 6L80/90. Only ECM other than GM's that will work with 6Ls TCM. Check out there build in Conversion & Hybrid section.
Last edited by poorhousenext; Feb 11, 2011 at 04:41 PM.
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Mast Motor Sports started a build thread on their 6L90E back in July of 2008 they had started earlier in the year.
The big question about their ECM was asked in 2009. Here is Mast Motor Sports reply. I assume they know what they are talking about, maybe. Go to their web site and look at what LS engines they list for their ECM used for build.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ng-hauler.html
Seems most people want to be spoon fed instead of researching on their on.
Because of this the same bad information from the masses keeps getting passed around, like the rpm drop from 1st to 2nd gear even thought when I look at splits, I don't see that. I see splits like that of a 4 speed manual trans. Probably another reason Tuners need to rethink how they tune trans.
I'm not sure if I understand why Circle D would want to be involved with trying to come up with a kit(s). To many variables, and the only skin they have in game is a built 6L80/90E, rest would come from other vendors they would have to be responsible for.
If I were Circle D, and wanted to be a player in building a reliable 6L80/90E performance trans, I would built my on Test Mule car so I had total control of testing, tuning, etc. That way they could move at their on pace.
A 2nd party has their on agenda that might not be compatible with time/effort and money they can put into effort at any given time.
Now if you have deep pockets and a real intrest in just developement of trans and pay for all the research and development costs, I might think about it....LOL
thats the thing, Circle D's pace is pretty fast. Their test mule is a 5th gen so T&T on the tranny itself is taken care of, a crossmember would be simple to fab and take just hours, LMR is quite capable of handling all else seeing as how the 2 shops and my house are all within about 5 miles of each other.
Market- if nobody wants a kit then nobody will build one. If the market is too small then nobody will build one.
Market- if nobody wants a kit then nobody will build one. If the market is too small then nobody will build one.
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thats the thing, Circle D's pace is pretty fast. Their test mule is a 5th gen so T&T on the tranny itself is taken care of, a crossmember would be simple to fab and take just hours, LMR is quite capable of handling all else seeing as how the 2 shops and my house are all within about 5 miles of each other.
Market- if nobody wants a kit then nobody will build one. If the market is too small then nobody will build one.
Market- if nobody wants a kit then nobody will build one. If the market is too small then nobody will build one.
First thing I decided to look at was manual transmission use in them. See they used both 5 speed and 6 speed transmissions in them.
I know from experence people that install the Tremec 5s & 6s in older body style like my C2 6L80E build have about the same problems fitting them as I did with the 6L due to backbone height and length from bell housing to end of them. Requires tunnel top to have to be raised about the same on both.
Looks like Gen 4 tunnel may not have to be modified to install a 6L. If so next thing to look at would be the trans cross member and that looks like it might not be all that bad.
You might want to just contact Mast Motorsports and make sure your engine is compatible with their ECM and if they can supply you with a wire harness. Then cost out what you are going to have to outlay to do a swap. You don't need Circle D if you can do the labor yourself.
Next problem is pan to ground heigth. A G8 pan would be of some help, but you can see frome the pictures that a 4L pan bottom is above the bottom of dust cover, while the 6L's hangs below it.
I would check ride height of car to see how much ground clearance you have now and go from there.
Last edited by poorhousenext; Feb 6, 2011 at 10:42 PM.
Poorhouse, I lack the funds to do it on my own at the moment. buying and building a 6L is currently an expensive process and Ive got a 4l80 with NIB TCI super street rebuild kit sitting here. choosing to try that route on my own coin would be foolish. I would build the kit if I could get store credit or the swap for free or something but right now its just not in my budget, need a financial backer. 
for the time it was in there though, every time they smoked it it lasted longer and longer. Circle D does all the 6L's for the various packages of LMR so the R&D on the trans continues, I talked to Glenn a week or two ago and he was telling me theyre making progress every day.
Ive no doubt the market will come, timing will be everything once its here.
Ive no doubt the market will come, timing will be everything once its here.
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From: League City, TX
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Northern NJ
Good info. I agree too few bother to do their own research. I have someone on another site "disappointed" that I won't freely share the innermost details of what took me tens of thousands of dollars, 2 years, and a buttload of favors to get. 
Again, the main reason A6/6L transmissions fail is because of ****-poor tuning. You can't make adjustments to this transmission like it's an A4/4L transmission. It has completely different algorithms, line pressures and internal functions. As the saying goes, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. How many people claimed the lightweight LS motor with it's aluminum construction and open block design would never hold up to power and spray. How many LS motors even to this day needlessly give their lives to poor tuning? Now you can't even give away an iron SBC, let alone a BBC. How many BUILT 4L transmission still blow up every day on here and across the country? Most times the transmission builder is blamed, when it's a good chance that it's the tuner (owner or otherwise) who did it. It's also why GM got smart and started tracking 'tune' changes in their newer vehicles.
Plain and simple, people people THINK they know what they are doing just bc they read or heard something and have tuning software...then when parts go KABOOM, they want to blame it on everyone else. Saying that this transmission is no good is just a way for a person who doesn't know HOW to make it work to dismiss it. Like I said before, if you want to know something, ask the person who OWNS and DRIVES the product.
Again, the main reason A6/6L transmissions fail is because of ****-poor tuning. You can't make adjustments to this transmission like it's an A4/4L transmission. It has completely different algorithms, line pressures and internal functions. As the saying goes, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. How many people claimed the lightweight LS motor with it's aluminum construction and open block design would never hold up to power and spray. How many LS motors even to this day needlessly give their lives to poor tuning? Now you can't even give away an iron SBC, let alone a BBC. How many BUILT 4L transmission still blow up every day on here and across the country? Most times the transmission builder is blamed, when it's a good chance that it's the tuner (owner or otherwise) who did it. It's also why GM got smart and started tracking 'tune' changes in their newer vehicles.
Plain and simple, people people THINK they know what they are doing just bc they read or heard something and have tuning software...then when parts go KABOOM, they want to blame it on everyone else. Saying that this transmission is no good is just a way for a person who doesn't know HOW to make it work to dismiss it. Like I said before, if you want to know something, ask the person who OWNS and DRIVES the product.
Good info. I agree too few bother to do their own research. I have someone on another site "disappointed" that I won't freely share the innermost details of what took me tens of thousands of dollars, 2 years, and a buttload of favors to get.
Again, the main reason A6/6L transmissions fail is because of ****-poor tuning. You can't make adjustments to this transmission like it's an A4/4L transmission. It has completely different algorithms, line pressures and internal functions. As the saying goes, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. How many people claimed the lightweight LS motor with it's aluminum construction and open block design would never hold up to power and spray. How many LS motors even to this day needlessly give their lives to poor tuning? Now you can't even give away an iron SBC, let alone a BBC. How many BUILT 4L transmission still blow up every day on here and across the country? Most times the transmission builder is blamed, when it's a good chance that it's the tuner (owner or otherwise) who did it. It's also why GM got smart and started tracking 'tune' changes in their newer vehicles.
Plain and simple, people people THINK they know what they are doing just bc they read or heard something and have tuning software...then when parts go KABOOM, they want to blame it on everyone else. Saying that this transmission is no good is just a way for a person who doesn't know HOW to make it work to dismiss it. Like I said before, if you want to know something, ask the person who OWNS and DRIVES the product.
Again, the main reason A6/6L transmissions fail is because of ****-poor tuning. You can't make adjustments to this transmission like it's an A4/4L transmission. It has completely different algorithms, line pressures and internal functions. As the saying goes, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. How many people claimed the lightweight LS motor with it's aluminum construction and open block design would never hold up to power and spray. How many LS motors even to this day needlessly give their lives to poor tuning? Now you can't even give away an iron SBC, let alone a BBC. How many BUILT 4L transmission still blow up every day on here and across the country? Most times the transmission builder is blamed, when it's a good chance that it's the tuner (owner or otherwise) who did it. It's also why GM got smart and started tracking 'tune' changes in their newer vehicles.
Plain and simple, people people THINK they know what they are doing just bc they read or heard something and have tuning software...then when parts go KABOOM, they want to blame it on everyone else. Saying that this transmission is no good is just a way for a person who doesn't know HOW to make it work to dismiss it. Like I said before, if you want to know something, ask the person who OWNS and DRIVES the product.
The only real problem with the 6L80e is tuning. The transmissions themselves are very strong. The only parts available for them right now are clutches and a 4,5,6 shaft and both parts we helped engineer and develop. We don't hate 6L80e transmissions. We have built just as many or more than anyone else right now. But right now we have to turn away business or give the customer another alternative because no one is able to tune these consistantly.
Once the tuners figure these out they are going to be a fantastic alternative. We can only hope it will be soon.
^^^Im with you, the aftermarket needs to further develop it. Once they start getting it right we will see its true potential. Im patiently waiting, somebody is going to do it sooner or later
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: League City, TX
Lol so all this time it's been because of a tune? Speaking of which I forgot to ask earlier, since a stock Fbody PCM wouldnt be able to support a 6L Transmission, would an aftermarket controller like BS3 handle the job? And is their 100% compatibility taking the PCM out of a newer generation GM sports car like a Camaro or a Vette (That sports a 6L tranny of course) and swapping it into an Fbody?
As of right now there is no way to stand alone control a 6LXX transmission. GM doesn't even offer a stand alone system. You have to run the propper ECU for the application. Even tho the transmission has its own TCM it still requires an engine EMU sense it is all CAN data.
As of right now there is no way to stand alone control a 6LXX transmission. GM doesn't even offer a stand alone system. You have to run the propper ECU for the application. Even tho the transmission has its own TCM it still requires an engine EMU sense it is all CAN data.
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/news-view.php?id=80
It's been done at least a few times now and in various different projects and I personally witnessed one back in September. It was an older car but for the life of me I can't remember the details so I just left the guy a voicemail and will post up the specifics when I hear back from him.