LQ4/228R cam/799 heads/LS6 intake/headers in an Fbody

Got new 4l60e trans and torque converter, went from an "Edge" 3200 to a "Summit Racing SUM-700340 - Summit Racing® Pro LS" and I have a few questions.

First, is it worth it to cut/clean this Edge 3200 converter? I didn't see any material in the fluid but already gave back the trans core so may never know why it failed. Turns out I am missing having this converter.

Second, this Summit converter was listed as 3000-3200, so I expected the experience to be similar, but it is most certainly not. Tight in gear while idling, feels like stock. Stall seems way lower, tach doesn't jump near as high at, say, 15mph WOT where it would normally break tires loose easily, now struggles a bit. Can't remember where the flash stall was on the Edge but seems like this one is only comfortable at 2500rpm under power stopped. Also, the Summit one weighs a full 10lbs more, which I didn't expect. Is this going to be a significant loss at the track/street?

 

You bought an 11" converter from summit...what did you expect?
You got a trailblazer converter likely with slightly modified fin angle to be more negative for the higher stall.
It's inefficient. It's going to feel lazy. It's going to perform poorly.

Short answer...yes you're going to lose performance.
Yes it's worth the $100 cut and clean to be sure

 

Wish I had good reliable ET numbers with this combo prior to this Summit one to compare to, will check around locally for someone to clean out this Edge one then.

Sounds like I need to spend some more money and effort then and get this edge back in there. Maybe before I do I will get some ET/traps with this Summit one first and then will know for sure after the swap back.

This was a DD and needed to get it back on the road quick, I did do some quick googling and on paper the Summit one seemed similar... "Pro LS" sounds like a good quality racing converter, had similar stall and rated at higher horsepower than most of the others, good price and could get it fast. I should have posted here first I guess. .. thanks.

EDIT: Pasting their description below, do you still think this is a low quality torque converter? Doesn't sound like a shortcut modded trailblazer converter from this description. Plus it wasn't the cheapest I saw out there, seemed middle of the road pricewise.

"These torque converters are computer-balanced and feature woven carbon lockup clutch lining, anti balloon plates, heavy duty torrington bearings, Hand tig welding, a new pilot, new impeller hub, new turbine hub, and a custom stator. When you are looking for a durable torque converter for your LS powered ride, pick up one of our Summit Racing® Pro LS torque converters."

 

Sounds like every torque converter ad out there.
They don't get sales by telling you it's a 6 cylinder core. Even the best billet converters use core pumps. And look at all the big names, they're all tig welded. But Summit says THEY'RE EVEN TIG WELDED TOO!!!!

 

Reviving this old thread, I finally got the Edge 3200 cut open to be cleaned and it's shot. Shop said looks like bearings went out. I don't know if the TC went out and took out the transmission, or the other way around. Right now I still have this horrible Summit converter in the car (YES STILL). It's a DD that was getting over 40k/year minimum miles before covid, little less now. So, the oiginal plan of cut/cleaning the Edge is out the window, I am now going to install a Yank PT4000.

I chose the PT4000 because I actually finding myself wanting the power on a roll most of the time. I do runs from a stop, and obviously do so at the track, so wanted best of both worlds but wanted low STR to keep more power on the highway.

So, anyone want to make a guesstimate on my gains at the track before and after?

I need to first get my shift revs higher, after I put in the cam/springs/pushrods I never bumped it up from stock. But once I do that, I am going to take it to the track and get some "before" numbers. Then I am going to do nothing but swap the converter, tune the shifts to compensate, and do some more runs and see the difference.

Attaching a few pics of the busted up Edge 3200:

 

Well at least you found out the issue, the PT4000 is a pretty good converter, I went with a Circle D 2E from my SS3600 as I also wanted to better utilize my setup and not give up anything from a roll. I'd guess depending on traction you could lower your times anywhere from .3 to .7, maybe even a full second depending on how inefficient that Summit TC is plus traction, tune and air coming into play.

 

Damn!

 

what is an "edge" convertor anyways? never hear of it. I would have recommended a yank anyways....glad you went with a good convertor. Buying chaep *** convertors will have you chasing your tail and spending more money than just ponying up for a good one from the get go.

 

Pretty sure it's this company: https://www.edgeracingconverters.com/

I gotta say, the Edge Racing converter was head and shoulders better than this Summit one at low speed. With Edge, stabbing pedal anywhere under 20mph would break tires loose, not so much with the Summit converter. So for a somewhat no-name converter I give Edge cred for its launch performance, unsure about reliabilty/strength. Don't know if it broke first or if trans did.

Just finished up the rev tuning and expecting to go to the track Friday I hope. I'll try to baseline this Summit converter so I can compare it to the Yank pt4000 one-to-one. Track has a brand new surface and this Friday is the first TNT I think, hope I can get good traction. I'll probably only get one chance at these numbers because I'll be so eager to get the Yank in there LOL.

 

Edge offers some decent Torque-Converters.

Dana (PBA) of Pro-Built Automatics uses them regularly.

 

I bought an Edge converter from Dana 2 years ago. Got it installed last summer infront of an already built & proven 700R4. 700 actually had a small diameter Edge converter from about 11 years ago,but I never really liked it too loose. Had close to 5/16” between converter mounting pad and flywheel mounting pad. got shims made up at a machine shop. Had bad vibration in park/neutral just reving the engine.tried moving holes, tried removing shim, still bad vibration. talked to Dana and I shipped back to Edge in October. About $110 Canadian dollars. Edge claimed converter was fine, height was in tolerance, balance was find blah blah blah. Come mid-January inquired again having heard nothing back, was offered that they could add 1/8" onto the converter snout or get a refund. Opted for a refund, went with a Circle D vehicle should hopefully running end of the month,covid has really messed up getting parts and incorrect/incomplete orders. I gathered from Dana that he has had issues with Edge products lately. Anyway, I personally would avoid Edge. i have heard and read lots of people that went faster after they replaced their Edge converter.

 

Sounds like the Torque-Converter spacing was incorrect... The cause of which could be many things/ dimensions.
There is a lot more going on with Torque-Converter installation, than most people think.

Most people do not realize that the Torque-Converter must have its Pilot correctly positioned in the Engine's Crank-Shaft... and correctly positioned in the Transmission's Pump Drive-Gear.
The Torque-Converter being bolted to the Flex-Plate and sitting on the Transmission's Stator-Support Shaft is not good enough/ nor correctly installed on its own.

I can not personally vouch for Edge... I have never used an Edge product for myself or for my customers.
Being that Dana and I speak to one another often... I take his opinion of the Edge products at face-value, since he has first-hand experience with Edge.

For the longest time, I ONLY used Niel Chance Torque-Converters (generally was more product and money that was required for much of my Shop Builds... No harm in overbuilding what I offer with customers consent).
Now-a-days I would recommend FTI Performance for most Street vehicles!


Dalton is your man if you would like an FTI Torque-Converter...
I would strongly recommend them! Great products, and great people!

 

Update: made two passes at the track Friday night with the Summit Racing SUM-700340 - Summit Racing® Pro LS torque converter and got 12.31 at 112.9mph with a 1.82 sixty foot. Not sure of DA right now but will document that as well for apples-to-apples.

Yank PT4000 has not arrived yet, but will update this thread with track results after install. I will be careful to do no further tuning unless necessary for shiftpoints etc.

I gotta say, this Summit Converter felt pretty good actually. Car ran better than I expected. I bet the Yank isn't going to be that big of a difference is my feeling right now but we'll see how much difference there is between a $500 converter and a $1000 converter. I want to change it anyway because this Summit does feel too tight down low (the opposite complaint for most DD people LOL).

 

I just bought a Yank converter a few months ago and it took almost 6 weeks to come in. So don't take you car apart until you get a tracking number, it maybe awhile.

 

SUM-700340 isn't an average converter. In fact it's the same as the one from a top favorite manufacturer people love - except in Red. We buy them in high quantities and keep the pricing down, but don't let that fool you. We've been considering adding some higher stall options and billet cover options as well, but this one should have stalled higher regardless. https://www.summitracing.com/newsand...-now-available

 

Just updating an old thread for fairness to Summit and others who search this topic for their converter, and because I hate when threads are left open ended.. I was able to get two runs in with the Yank a few months ago on the old engine before it went kaplooey. I was going to wait until I did a post-mortem on the engine before I pronounce anything, but I won't have time to do that any time soon and may just unload the old engine without opening it because I am out of room and time. Also, I didn't compare the conditions between the track dates (DA/temp).

But, for those of you considering the Summit converter, surprisingly it seemed that the Summit converter was reasonably close to the Yank PT4000 in my particular build at the 1/4 mile track (Full Weight H/C/I LQ4 with 243's and 228r) in both ET and Trap (+/- a tenth or "maybe" almost two, +/- 1 MPH or so). I need to add the following caveat: I don't know if my engine was hurt during the Yank runs, it did not seem like it was, no missing etc.. but I did find some large material on the pan magnet very shortly afterwards so I suspect a lifter ate down a cam lobe. So it's possible the Yank run had a handicap.

The only down side for the Summit in my opinion was that it was way too tight down low. I have videos of me idling (cammed at ~900RPM) and able to easily drive around a mall parking lot without touching the throttle, and also when I'd powerbrake it I could only get maybe 2300 RPMs MAX before the rear tires would start scuffing, and also stomping full throttle at 10mph did not always break tires loose because it was below powerband apparently. With the Edge and the Yank, anything WOT anywhere below 20mph on the street was spinning. I understand the Yank is 4k but the Edge was rated at 3200 (similar to the Summit). With the Summit I could hold it in 1st to get the revs up a bit and then it'd break 'em loose so I know the power's there (since the revs would be higher). Some say that could be a good thing, but I look at it as not having as much torque at launch. I guess it's all in what you want and what build you have.

 

Thanks for the update