The part in the schematic is the range sensor that is mounted on the shifter and show how it is wired to the PMC.


v range sensor

 

Turns out that the sensor and harness did not come with the transmission.

 

To avoid confusion, exactly what "sensor and harness" are you referring to? The parts inside the trans or the range switch outside the trans.
As far as I know all recent model 4L60E/4L70E have a range position switch inside the trans. (Replacing the older pressure manifold switch.)
The so-called "range switch" outside the trans was never an exact range switch; it only indicated if the trans was in Park or Neutral. (Or Reverse to turn on the reverse lights).
A good scanner should indicate exactly which position your shifter is in - D1, D2, D3 or D4/OD. The external "range" switch never did this.

 

Well, it is certainly confusing to me, because I've heard it called 3 different things now: Range Sensor, Neutral Safety Switch, and now Range Position Switch. It is the internal sensor that does provide what gear you are in, the place that is working on it called it Neutral Safety Switch...and the associated harness.

Here's a funny thing that happened: I took it to a shop that had a Snapon scanner. The gentleman that hooked it to the ODB port asked "What did this engine come out of?". I purchased the engine from Jegs new, and I purchased the 4l65e from a Chevy dealer, new. I told him it was a crate engine, but I think a 2012 or 2103 Camaro would have an LS3. He hooked up, and from his screen, he said "For future reference, you should keep track of this vin number..." and he gave me the number from the screen.

But then all the readings were screwed up. They decided something was wrong with my computer. But they gave me a reference to another shop in town that he said really did all their computer work, so it is there now.

I did not believe the computer was bad. Car was running fine...just the new cruise unit couldn't see what gear it was in. So, he should have asked me what the computer was out of, which the other shop asked that while I was on the phone setting the appt. I contacted PSI, and he replied back with a print screen that showed the VIN that should be used, and showed it as from a 2009 Silverado.

I'm surprised the trans came without the sensor inside...whatever it's called.

 

This is an interesting saga, and a bit frustrating.

So, the shop the car is at that told me there was no sensor has installed it. (He called it yet something else...which I didn't retain).

At any rate, he said that now it will not shift out of 1st gear. His reasoning was that the programming was for a 4L60e rather than a 4l65e. He had called to talk to PSI and was waiting on a return call. In the meantime, I emailed Gary at PSI to give him a heads up, and listed what he said was going on. Gary replied that 4l600 - 70 all use the same programming, and that wouldn't be the problem. He did not call him back. Said the mechanic needs to retrace what he did and find what may be wrong.

I went up there and told him, and he mentioned something else that he wanted to talk to PSI about. So, he's going to call him again.

 

A trans mechanic who says that "the programming was for a 4L60e rather than a 4l65e" does not know what they are talking about because there is no electrical or programming differences. Too many mechanics only know how to follow basic "procedures" and don't understand the theory. Similarly the SnapOn mechanic who only seems to know how the use the tool when starting with a VIN number. I'm confident that the PSI guy knows his stuff; sounds like your local mechanics don't know enough theory to diagnose a custom no-VIN problem.

Mr Bond posted some nice pictures. Remove the pan from your trans and post a picture of the valve body; in particular I am looking for the "blue clip" area in the top left of Mr Bond's picture. That is where the 2008+ transmissions have the shifter position switch which connects to the PCM through the internal 14-pin harness.

Why not update your info to tell us what city you live in. Anyone here with e.g. HP Tuners or EFI Live could debug this for you in a few minutes. Someone nearby might offer to do that for you. I sure would.

 

Ok. I have no idea if what the mechanic is doing makes any sense, but here is what I know now. I just came back from stopping by there.

He said the transmission had a TFP Switch, like pic below, which he removed:



He installed and IMF switch. I showed him the picture that Mr Bond had posted that has the blue thing, and he said that is what he installed, along with different harness. I circled in red what I understood it to be, but please don't hang me if I got it wrong:



I agree with confidence in PSI.

Gary at PSI had also told me that there was no difference in the programming between 60, 65 etc. He said to tell him to go back and review what he's done to find the problem. I told him that. He said that tomorrow he is going to pull the pan and what i understood was pull that IMF and try to see if he has it set up wrong. He described how it has different positions based on what gear it is in, and maybe he has something wrong.

I can't pull lthe trans pan and take pics, as it is up there. But showing him the pic with the blue piece of plastic, he said, "Yeah, that's what I installed".

I took it to a shop as I don't have any trans experience, and with no drain plug in the pan, and no lift at my house, I figured I'd end up with fluid everywhere in my garage.

I hope I don't regret taking it up there.

Appreciate your input folks.

 

Ok, now we are getting somewhere and can clear up some confusion.
What you called the "TFP Switch" (never heard of that) is what we call the Manifold Pressure Switch (post #4) or "pressure switch manifold" (post #13). It tells the PCM exactly what gear the shifter is in.
However GM replaced it around 2008/2009 by the more mechanical switch internal switch as in Mr Bond's photo and which you correctly highlighted in post #27.
So when you said you bought a brand new 4L65E from Chevy in 2013 we expected to see the new arrangement not the old one. (Maybe you bought a "new" but rebuilt one???)
Your mechanic is right that changing to the new arrangement also required a new harness. Maybe he did make a mistake.
I don't have my Camaro nearby now or I would check, but IIRC, even a $200 scan tool (HF, etc) indicates the shifter position by reading the value from the PCM which in turn gets the value from the main trans harness.
Fingers crossed your mechanic figures this out.

 

I am going to try and make this simple... or at least simplify things as much as I can.

Unfortunately many, many components or parts of an automobile have more than one name for that given part.

For example: a drive-shaft is also referred to as a prop-shaft/ propeller-shaft.

In this situation we are discussing different types of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assemblies.
There are multiple types of this part and multiple names and abbreviations of this part.

I am going to use the GM terminology here.

4L60E Transmissions (4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E) before 2007-2009 use an Automatic Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Manifold Assembly.
This part is often abbreviated down to several different combinations of the actual name.
For example: Pressure Manifold Switch... or Pressure Switch Manifold.

These components can not detect the difference between Park and Neutral gear/ range positions.
An Automatic Transmission Park Neutral Position Switch Assembly is used in conjunction with the Automatic Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Manifold Assembly.

The later produced 4L60E Transmissions (4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E) would eliminate both the Automatic Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Manifold Assembly and the Automatic Transmission Park Neutral Position Switch Assembly.

The automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly used in these transmissions are the Automatic Transmission Internal Mode And Range Position Switch Assembly. This component does not require a secondary part as the earlier design automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly did.

These two different types of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly are not interchangeable or combinable.
These transmissions will use one type of this part or the other based on year of production.
Attempting to install the incorrect version of the part will result in multiple parts that do not fit together nor interact with one another.
A different valve-body, internal linkage, internal wiring, internal electrical and electronics, external wiring, PCM and software make these two versions of the transmission very different from one another.

Posting a photo of the valve-body will show us all which type of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly fits the transmission.

 

If needed, I will post photos of the actual GMPT/ Hydra-Matic 4L60E Principles and Theories of Operation Manual.

 

Ok. So, what confuses me now is, why can we not see the gear info based on that, do you think? That is what the cruise control unit needs in order to perform. That's what we're trying to achieve.

Nope, Unless they screwed me on the sale. It was a remote sale to me from a Chevy dealer in Colorado. The invoice says it is part number 19260380. I had read in a post, I think on this forum, but who knows at this point, that they had reasonable prices. So, I called them and ordered a 4l70e. I had it in the shipping container (black plastic of some kind made for the trans) for maybe a little over a year before I was to the point to install. I'm not sure at what point exactly, but I eventually learned it was not a 4L70e. I figured it was too late to do anything about it. So, well,..I guess they did screw me. If it was rebuilt, a touble tap

Thanks for the crossed fingers .

One other question: does it sound feasible that he may need t o do some kind of alingnment to the gear switch (or whatever it is in the unit that determines gear)?

 

Below is text from an email from the shop that I purchased the cruise unit from:

I will probably try to take this up to the shop in the morning and see what he says. I"m thinking that this part of the message:

might be the reason it is not shifting out of 1st gear after installing the IMF.

Interest to know if you have any thoughts.

 

As I stated in post #29, in regard to the "Late 4L60E Transmissions":

The automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly used in these transmissions are the Automatic Transmission Internal Mode And Range Position Switch Assembly. This component does not require a secondary part as the earlier design automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly did.

And this in regard to "Early" VS "Late" transmissions:

These two different types of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly are not interchangeable or combinable.
These transmissions will use one type of this part or the other based on year of production.
Attempting to install the incorrect version of the part will result in multiple parts that do not fit together nor interact with one another.
A different valve-body, internal linkage, internal wiring, internal electrical and electronics, external wiring, PCM and software make these two versions of the transmission very different from one another.

Posting a photo of the valve-body will show us all which type of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly fits the transmission.

 

While I am not familiar with the Dakota Digital product that you own.. or that particular PSI wiring harness...
I used Dakota Digital products way back in time when they were somewhat in style.
The only products I deal with from a company called "PSI", are screw super-chargers for Hemi-engines producing 3,500 to 5,000 HP.

I can however, help sort out the actual transmission componentry.

I just called one of my old employees; who still is working as an In-Field GM Repair Engineer for the NYC area.
In the current GM SPO master parts database...
The GM part number you have listed... is without a doubt:

The GMPT/ Chevrolet Performance Parts "Super-Matic 4L65E". Not a 4L70E or whatever other bad information that you were given.
I also left a message with the GM "Technical Assistance Center" for Engineers in MI, to confirm that this transmissions uses the older style parts.

On that note... The 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E, and 4L75E are all actually the same transmission with slight internal differences in terms of power-handling and electrical/ electronics changes over the 1993 to 2013 production run.

 

Should the Dakota Digital and PSI components you have require a "Late" 4L60E unit...

Then you unfortunately need to find other gauges or cruise control parts.

You can NOT use the "Early" type transmission and corresponding electrical/ electronic parts with the "Late" style automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly / Automatic Transmission Internal Mode And Range Position Switch Assembly.

These parts are not compatible...

These two different types of automatic transmission gear/ range position sensor assembly are not interchangeable or combinable.
These transmissions will use one type of this part or the other based on year of production.
Attempting to install the incorrect version of the part will result in multiple parts that do not fit together nor interact with one another.
A different valve-body, internal linkage, internal wiring, internal electrical and electronics, external wiring, PCM and software make these two versions of the transmission very different from one another.

 

Oh boy...maybe I'm in trouble.

As noted in post #27 with pictures, I apparently had the old setup in the transmission. In your earlier post you said this:

Which I interpret to mean, based on the text I changed to red, that if I need to know what gear i am in, I am out of luck.

The fact that the guyi at the shop pulled the old one and replaced with the newer one (including the harness), is problematic, and is likely why it is not shifting out of first gear.

And finally, if the cruise control needs to know gear info from the ODb II port, it's not going to get it, and hence I cannot use the cruise control.

Unless there is a way to get that gear information through the ODB port given it has the old switches.

 

Yes.
This:




Is the Automatic Transmission Park Neutral Position Switch Assembly and is normally mounted outside the transmission case.

That is used with:




The Automatic Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Manifold Assembly and attaches to the valve-body, inside the transmission.

These two components make up the "Early" system.

The "Late" system uses one part to replace the two parts in the photos above.

This:


Is the one part used in the "Late" system, called the Automatic Transmission Internal Mode And Range Position Switch Assembly.

It goes inside the transmission but does not bolt to the valve-body.
When this part is used... there is no other part bolted to the outside of the case.

 

So, that is what has happened. Removed the older unit (there never was an outside unit), and also replaced the harness.

But based on your earlier replies, my understanding is this:

• My trans is earlier version
• I cannot remove the earlier stuff and replace it with the newer stuff. The fact that the mechanic did that is likely why it is not shifting out of 1st gear.
• Because the cruise unit is expecting gear info from the ODB...that is not going to happen, so I cannot use this cruise unit
• You may correct me on this: I am presuming that even if the external sensor was on the trans, it would not feed gear into to be seen via ODB II.
  • IF in fact it does feed to the ODB II and I can use the cruise, then...
  • I would have to live w/o seeing what gear it is in, or maybe contact DD and see if they can pull the gear info and feed it to the DD gauges

Sorry I've been so dense on this stuff and frustrated you earlier. Appreciate your help.

 

Vorteciroc is giving you very detailed and accurate information. It reminded me (sorry I forgot) that switching from an older manifold pressure switch to the newer "internal mode and range" switch is not as simple as replacing that part. When I had to change a newer style trans to an older one with the manifold pressure switch I had to change the valve body too. This was needed for the trans to work with a "411" PCM. IIRC the trans connector is then different too so that an old style harness cannot be plugged into a new style trans and vice versa. So I now think the correct style of valve body and corresponding switch will depend upon what PCM/ECM is controlling the engine and trans. A new ECM may need the newer style trans.
It is too bad that they sent you an older style trans. GM has been a bit sloppy with the designations, but I think that the newer style trans are called 4L70E and 4L75E. As mentioned these have the input speed sensor and do NOT have the 3-2 downshift solenoid.
If needed, switching valve bodies is not all that difficult; it can be done without removing the trans from the car.

In short, your next step is to determine what PCM/ECM you have; if a GM unit we can tell you which style trans it needs. If aftermarket you will have to determine that; some support both styles, some only one.

Next unless your mechanic already swapped the valve body, tell him that changing from a manifold pressure switch to the new style mode/range switch will not be enough.

 

The PCM is a E38, programmed as a 2008 Chevy Silverado, The TCM is a T42.

I know that at the moment, he has not changed the valve body.