I'm in a discussion about the 300mm input shafts with another transmission builder. I would like to clear up any misconceptions, mine included. I keep different input drums that have been pressed apart, cleaned and pressed back together with Loctite stud & bearing mount. The issue is that some believe that the input shaft for the 4L65E & 4L70E are hardened and how to identify them. It has been stated that the hardened shafts have a 1/2" wide groove in them. I cannot find information from either ATRA or ATSG to collaborate that fact. The one on the left is supposed to be a standard 4L60E shaft. The one on the right is one that has the groove and the other builder say's that it is from a 4L65E and hardened. I have 2 known 4L65E cores one 3KZD & one 5CZD. Both of these have shafts like on the left with out a groove. I have built alot of 4L65E virgin units and I just do not remember how the input shaft looked. I say the Grooves are just identifiers for the assembly line to quickly ID the shaft for the proper unit and the difference in the colors could be from the two different plants that they are manufactured in. If they are a hardened for the 4L65E/4L70E, then I see 4 different 300mm input shafts.
Any help or insight will be greatly appreciated!!!

1 of the other shafts is a later version with the sealing rings moved back .190 for the transition to the ISS. This is used in the pumps with the ISS plug in the pump. It has two grooves.

Then there is the actual ISS shaft. This one is from a GM reman unit that was in a 2007 Trailblazer SS and was tagged 7KCD had a pump and input shaft stamped 06, the case had the etched code of 0CAD. It doesn't have a groove in it, but it does have a step down on the diameter that matches the groove depth of the others

 

The information to answer your questions/ Thread Topic, is considered to be Engineering information.
As such, we (GM) never properly released this information to the public or transmission rebuilders associations (ex. ATSG or ATRA).

Like most private information these days... The information has been leaked over the years.
Since then GM has published this information in a few slightly discrete places.
The next time that any of you purchase a Rear Pump Half for a ISS unit... Read the entire instruction sheet.


The Turbine-Shaft design that we consider to be a "True" 4L65E Shaft... is the design with the One band around it.
This applies to both ISS and Non-ISS units.

Note: Many SUVs and Trucks built with a 4L65E... Do NOT have a "True" 4L65E Shaft.

 

Is there any way to tell differences like these on the OUTPUT shafts? especially the short 4WD shaft which must absorb more torsion without breaking. I don't think Tranzman would object to output shaft info here with the input ID'ing...

By the way, I just bought a Sonnax Smart-Tech housing & "HD" shaft, the 11KA version, and, except for the color, it has that single "band" on the shaft; I also bought a used "4l65e" ISS version thinking my '07 core would be ISS, (it's not), and it too has that single "band" on the shaft...

Hope this helps.

 

GM stated that the 1/2" wide band/groove is rhe identifier for rhe hardened 4L65E/4L70E input and output shafts. I have yet to see a output shaft with a 1/2 wide band. I have a 2005-2007 input shaft with 2 bands in it. I believe that it's possible for rhe second band to ID it as the shaft with relocated ring grooves.

 

There are two wheel drive Output-Shafts that will have 3 marks/ lines at the very back of the Output-Shaft, instead of 6 marks/ lines.

The image below shows the more common 4L60E Shaft with the 6 lines:



You would be looking for a Shaft with only 3 lines.

 

Thanks for that info... But I'm building a low miles 4WD GMC XUV and worried about putting serious power to it and the xfer case... heck, I've been so consumed by the trans I didn't even think about the xfer case yet... but it makes some sense worrying about the output shaft in the 4WD '60e--it's shorter than the 2WD shaft and must have to face more torsional twist & shock per linear inch than 2WD if given the same torque. Plus somebody special-ordered 3.42's instead of leaving the stock 3.73's. Did I mention it's about 5300lbs w/driver?

 

For Trucks with higher HP, that are four wheel drive...

I like to use a Billet Output-Shaft (like the Sonnax part) and the Sonnax Reaction-Tube.

 

Thanks for that recommendation. I heard they are on backorder to/by Sonnax... plus most of my Sonnax Mad Money is used up---I may have to return the 284 gear carrier set to get the shaft, though, sometimes, I feel I already GOT the shaft. I bought the their Smart Tech housing/drum with the HD input shaft/reinforcement kit/boost springs, etc, and I really don't want to return that; I wonder if they have any "user aide" to make things a little more affordable. I have been only on S.S., and stimulus checks are just about used up--no unemployment, no weekly $300 additions, it's getting tough paying WM $10 to deliver groceries every time--this trans is being built for my only vehicle, which has been out of commission since the end of January...

Are there any other brands of 4WD billet output shafts or hardened shafts cheaper? I thought I read in this forum about cryo'ing shafts... or which not to cryo, but I've had so many tabs open here in the past week I'm having trouble finding them again... Thanks.

 

The Sonnax 2.84:1 ratio Planet is a waste... I would not bother with it, as it does not make for a significant change most of the time.
I am not aware of other Companies offering a four wheel drive Output-Shaft.

If you were looking for Threads or Posts with either DANA/ PBA or myself discussing 4L60E/ THM700-R4 Cryo-Treatment...
Generally we have found that Cryo-Treatment has a benefit for regular (4L60E) Shafts; but not to Cryo-Treat the Shafts that people refer to as "4L65E" Shafts as they often become to brittle.

 

OK, I just tore open my core, a 7KCD, and it had two bands on the input shaft. The pump had the rubber plug and no ISS.

 

Strange...

O well, maybe the super-cheap C-K Platform Trucks has a small amount of Non-ISS Units snuck onto the Assembly-Line.

The Input-Shafts with two "Bands" around the Shaft, are Non-HD Shafts.

 

Rubber plug in pump--no ISS


Two "rings" on the turbine [input] shaft

 

I know this is an old thread but it was the first thread that comes up when looking for information on input shafts. While looking around I found a page with some decent info so I thought id add that information here for others. I've included the quick picture and the pdf of the rest of the info.

 

There is a 4WD output shaft that was an HD version. They came in Syclone's & Typhoon's. They will work in 4L60E's. They are identified with a 2 line ID in the middle of the shaft. However they are hard to find.