Drag Race Powerglide Questions

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Dec 28, 2022 | 04:50 PM

#21

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorteciroc

Hey what are you guys doing for Bands?

There has been a Clutch and Brake Relining Business where I live for the longest time.
They were doing my PG, THM400 and 4L80E Bands... but have now closed.

I have not looked at bands in the LONGEST Time... I have no idea what to try.

On that note, I keep hearing about a 2 and 5/8" wide Carbon 4L60E Band...
Who offers this?

I haven't had the need for a wide band but here is one that I found.
Whatever It Takes

N74020BAHP

Price: $61.50
Core Charge: $0.00
Available: 1
Band, 700R4/4L60E/4L65E(2 5/8" Wide)(W/Carbon Lining)1982-Up (Hi-Perf Racing)(" New Alabama Bands" )

Last edited by bbond105; Dec 28, 2022 at 04:59 PM.

Dec 28, 2022 | 05:52 PM

#22

vorteciroc

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From: Nitro Alley

Thanks for that!

Yeah... all the distributors have been pushing 'Bama Bands for a while now.
I might experiment some...

I have been mostly using Raybestos for Friction Elements...
But all I see is Kevlar Bands, and I tried many years ago.
They suck... the ONLY benefit to the material is that it is VERY difficult to burn.

The Stock (Late 60E) Band is excellent up to a very significant point.
I was using Alto Carbon Bands (I do not use Alto otherwise) in THM200-4R, THM700-R4, and 4L60Es...
But some are discontinued, and others are just hard to find.

Dec 28, 2022 | 06:57 PM

#23

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

I forgot, new return springs in both clutch packs
And machine rear of case to accept a roller bearing in place of bushing

Last edited by bbond105; Dec 28, 2022 at 10:11 PM.

Dec 28, 2022 | 07:16 PM

#24

FTICONVERTERS

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From: Deland, FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

I did purchase the HP Books PowerGlide Handbook by TSR (Carl Munroe) and in does go more in-depth in its coverage of modifications. It also seems to be more up to date.

I do have a question though. Why is the Powerglide high performance industry pushing Kolene steels in both clutch packs? You really have to search to find just a plan steel.

They shouldn't be too hard to find. We avoid Kolene unless regular steels are not available. I've got a little over a thousand steels in stock between thick and thin steels and more on order, so I MIGHT be able to spare you a few.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

I see where Coan Racing offers an adjustable pressure regulator valve that they claim helps with the pressure drop when applying the trans brake. What would be considered a safe pressure to run in a stock PG case?

Line pressure in a stock case 200-210, 250 in an aftermarket case. We have some springs available for a stock cast iron VB if needed and our billet VBs use an adjustable regulator that we can set on a dyno here for you if needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorteciroc

Wide band absolutely is not needed. We run standard with bands with our "extreme" material up to 2200HP. The material is a Carbon/Kevlar band that we have had GREAT success with. Red friction material would be my second choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

Here is my tentative parts list.

Sonnax Reverse Clutch Pack Retaining Ring
5 ea. 0.100 in. Thick Reverse Clutches
5 ea. 0.070 in. Thick Reverse Clutch Steels
Sonnax High Clutch Pack Retaining Ring
6 ea. 0.098 in. Thick Alto Red grooved High Clutches
6 ea. 0.070 in. Thick High Clutch Steels
Sonnax High Clutch Hubs 28304
4L60e Pump Bushing in High Clutch Drum
Sonnax Oil Pump Gears
Sonnax Stator Support Shafts 28154S if needed
Sonnax Pump Thrust Bearings 56241
Sonnax Band Adjustment Screw
Sonnax Servo Piston Kit 28821-10K
Summit Racing™ Input Shafts SUM-700324 Not a bad choice, but If your converter has a bushing in it, you could get some extra cooler flow with a shaft that doesnt have the front bushing land. and 300M isn't much more for the added insurance.
BTE 1.80 9310 straight cut gears installed in stock carrier and output shaft
Sonnax Rear Sun Gear Bearing Kit
Sonnax Ring Gear Stabilizer Kits 28510-S2
Sonnax Output Shaft Supports 28080K
Planetary pin rebuild kit with washers and bearings for 1:76 and 1:80

SFI Approved Bell Housing. I don’t think I can use a flex plate shield and keep the top bolt hole in the bell housing. I also have a case that is broken that I can put to use.

Band I hope to have a good stock Asbestos band in one of my cores
Sonnax Shift Levers 28431-05K

Coan Racing COA-12020 - TRANS BRAKE KIT W/ADJUSTABLE PRESSURE REGULATOR (STD. PATTERN). I have an old TCI brake that that is in rough shape and needs a new solenoid. I also want to try Coan Racing’s adjustable PR valve. By the time I buy the PR valve and a solenoid the brake is only $235 more.

Deep, Aluminum 2 qt. Pan and filter adaptor
Tilton Transmission Oil Cooler Pump 40-524 Little over kill in my opinion for a bracket car unless you're double entering the car and going rounds. But extra cooling is never a bad idea
Rebuild Gasket and seal kit
Bushing Kit

I think this is everything

Left some notes above with my opinion. Sounds like you have a pretty solid setup going together!

-Dalton

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Dec 28, 2022 | 10:04 PM

#25

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

Thanks Dalton. Don't all turbo spline input shafts have the front bushing land on them? My plan was to run the shaft without the bushing in the pump. Will this cause a problem or is there a better way?

I have seen FTI steels in Summit's online catalogue and plan to get them from there.

Brian

Dec 29, 2022 | 07:18 AM

#26

MaroonMonsterLS1

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From: Iowa

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

Here is my tentative parts list.

Sonnax Reverse Clutch Pack Retaining Ring
5 ea. 0.100 in. Thick Reverse Clutches
5 ea. 0.070 in. Thick Reverse Clutch Steels
Sonnax High Clutch Pack Retaining Ring
6 ea. 0.098 in. Thick Alto Red grooved High Clutches
6 ea. 0.070 in. Thick High Clutch Steels
Sonnax High Clutch Hubs 28304
4L60e Pump Bushing in High Clutch Drum
Sonnax Oil Pump Gears-Check the clearance and condition of your stock gears. If they are in good condition there is likely no need to replace them
Sonnax Stator Support Shafts 28154S if needed If you are using a converter with a bushing in it you don't need a stator with bushing in the front. This is a nice upgrade tho if the stock stator shaft looks worn.
Sonnax Pump Thrust Bearings 56241
Sonnax Band Adjustment Screw
Sonnax Servo Piston Kit 28821-10K I have great success with just the supported servo kit 28821-20K. But if you want the one you listed that's a fine choice too
Summit Racing™ Input Shafts SUM-700324 Not my first choice but will work
BTE 1.80 9310 straight cut gears installed in stock carrier and output shaft I can't express how strongly I recommend against this. Just get a nice gearset with nice output. The output on the stock are weak. The carrier is fine but why chance it with a broken output.
Sonnax Rear Sun Gear Bearing Kit
Sonnax Ring Gear Stabilizer Kits 28510-S2 I do not believe this kit works with anything other than the sonnax gearsets.
Sonnax Output Shaft Supports 28080K Stock output/governor support here is the way to go. Use a block off plate if your transbrake requires it. The roller bearing isn't the best option here imo
Planetary pin rebuild kit with washers and bearings for 1:76 and 1:80

SFI Approved Bell Housing. I don’t think I can use a flex plate shield and keep the top bolt hole in the bell housing. I also have a case that is broken that I can put to use.

Band I hope to have a good stock Asbestos band in one of my cores This is a great choice AS LONG AS it's never seen water intrusion
Sonnax Shift Levers 28431-05K

Coan Racing COA-12020 - TRANS BRAKE KIT W/ADJUSTABLE PRESSURE REGULATOR (STD. PATTERN). I have an old TCI brake that that is in rough shape and needs a new solenoid. I also want to try Coan Racing’s adjustable PR valve. By the time I buy the PR valve and a solenoid the brake is only $235 more.

Deep, Aluminum 2 qt. Pan and filter adaptor
Tilton Transmission Oil Cooler Pump 40-524
Rebuild Gasket and seal kit
Bushing Kit

I think this is everything

Also, do not machine the case for a roller bearing in the case. Totally not needed, IMO a bit of a downgrade to a stock case, and not even an upgrade for an SFI case.
Bushing case, gov support, and tailhousing. Done properly this offers superior support and negligible drag vs rollers. the key work there is PROPERLY. I can show you pictures of units with 100's of runs at 1500+ hp that have no discernable bushing wear. Someone justify the rollers to me.
Also...the rollers affect the lube circuit and play with how the rest of the unit gets lubed

Dec 29, 2022 | 06:03 PM

#27

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

Thanks MaroonMonster I will upgrade the input and output shafts and scale back in the other areas as suggested.

Is it okay to use a turbo spline input shaft without the stator support bushing in the pump? Will this cause a problem or is there a better way? All of the turbo spline input shafts that I have seen all have the land for a bushing.

Dec 29, 2022 | 06:22 PM

#28

vorteciroc

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From: Nitro Alley

I was trying to say out of this one.
Plenty of great Advise already.

Yes.

Order a "Bushed" Torque-Converter from Dalton, and Omit the Bushing from the Front of the Stator-Support Tube.

Dec 29, 2022 | 06:27 PM

#29

Greaterthenjake

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Not to hijack a thread but I am looking at doing a similar build myself. Going to probably copy this list. What input shaft is a ringed shaft considered failure prone? What would be recommended for a drag and drive type deal. Also what would change for a decent nitrous shot through a stock case powerglide? 250-300 shot with room to grow. This list and thread has been informative.

Dec 29, 2022 | 06:28 PM

#30

vorteciroc

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From: Nitro Alley

In regard to using Roller-Bearings for the Case and the Rear-Pump/ Governor Support, Tail-Housing...

I only recommend doing so by Drilling and Tapping Set-Screws with an Orifice Drilled through, to reduce Lube Oil Flow.

I really also see no ET or MPH increase from the Roller-Bearings... so I do NOT usually bother with them (Except in some uncommon situations).

Dec 30, 2022 | 02:36 AM

#31

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

I will just go with stock bushings in those areas after seeing the recommendations.

Thanks, MaroonMonster, Dalton and Vorteciroc. I think I now have the info needed to move forward. There’s nothing left to do but order parts and get busy.

Dec 30, 2022 | 03:39 AM

#32

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

How does this input shaft look?
Coan Racing COA-12800 - 300M ALLOY INPUT SHAFT, 12 7/8" (FITS 1.69, 1.76, 1.80, 1.89, 1.96, 2.03) - Powerglide - Components
Coan Racing
Part # COA-12800
300M ALLOY INPUT SHAFT, 12 7/8"

Dec 30, 2022 | 07:07 AM

#33

MaroonMonsterLS1

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From: Iowa

That is powerglide spline not "turbo spline"
you will need the 12802
It has a bushing journal for the front of the stator, but if you use the proper converter, you'll have no issue running that shaft with the stock stator tube and no bushing.
As for gearset, I strongly recommend the sonnax gearset. In my opinion it is the highest quality gearset on the market. The additional cost is worth it IMO

Dec 30, 2022 | 02:18 PM

#34

bbond105

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From: Poplarville, MS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaroonMonsterLS1

Thanks for catching that, I just flat out overlooked that was a PG spline shaft.

Jan 3, 2023 | 07:16 AM

#35

FTICONVERTERS

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From: Deland, FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbond105

No sir not all shafts have the bushing land up front. With or without the land, you wont have any issues if you remove the bushing as long as your converter has a bushing in the cover, you just get better cooler flow with a non landed shaft and no bushing. The main purpose of the converter bushing and/or the front stator bushing is to support and center the front of the input shaft.

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