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Next would be the pump, after disassembly remove valves from pump body, Beware of the pressure relief it can travel.
Clean all well and remove the stator (must have a press, don't do this step if you're not comfortable with it, It is easy to damage pump back.) Inspect for wear inside where rings ride it is a common miss. Always IMO change bushings in stator. look carefully at pump halves for dull spots those are leaks. If you have them then pump will need to be surfaced or replaced.
Things not to do- Do not replace 1/2 of a pump. On the lathe I have found all of them are warped. But warped together so they still seal. When you miss match halves you are likely going to get a leak. it may still work. May make what sounds like a groaning noise ( sound leaky pump makes on dyno) But something will get less pressure than it should or oil may bleed into some place it should not.
If you replace one side then replace the other. If you machine one side then machine the other.
Again when installing or replacing stator use Locktite sealer or as I do super glue gel . LIGHT coating inside pump half and on stator . Make sure pin is lined up and start some bolts through the stator into the pump. With pump half evenly supported as close to center as possible. Press stator in till stops. Blow through all holes and clean any excess sealer from front or rear half. Install bolts.
Notes-
1-If you use a punch and hit the bolts before trying to remove them they generally come out easier.
2- Do not use red loctite on the torx screws. Use blue of semi permanent so the next guy wont wish to kill you.
3-The stator must press down straight with a stable press, If it ***** you now need a new backing,
Re-install the TCC enable valve wider tip to outside. Re-install your PR VALVE or oversized if you determined you have excessive leaks there. two springs and Boost valve, I use a .500 valve in all builds I oring all lands on the sleeve and install a spring inside the boost valve.
Spring is from harbor freight kit , It has the basically same effect as increasing AFL. Except without increasing AFL and will generally leave you with about 80 PSI idle and 210 to 220 at WOT with stock tune.
The advantage of increasing line this way is you don't have to in the tune. Excessive AFL can cause failure to shift at WOT. This happens because the solenoid can become flooded and the 1-2 or more commonly the 2-3 shift refuse to happen even though commanded, I found this to be the case over the years doing tech support and even duplicated it on my IMPALA SS. I raised the max line from the stock (at least on my car) 95 to 110 in the tune, and the car would not make the 1-2 at WOT unless I let off a little . Instead it just hit the rev limiter. Lowered back down to 95 and perfect again. It is that center spring in the harbor freight kit . Works like a charm.
To me o-ringing the boost valve is a must as air checking I have found it leaks a lot without them. I cut my own grooves .062 deep and use this o-ring.
(will edit and add forgot to make photo.)
Install boost valve assembly. make sure snap ring seated and air check through pump. It should stroke boost valve with no leaks.
Pump face replace pump bushing always. Inspect rotor where converter rides , They are bad to wear there. Replace waffles pump rotor and slide as needed. Always put new rubbers and teflon in.
Hardened rings or not builders choice. I have noted on tear downs the hardened rings tend to wear on the waffles/blades more.
If you so replace the slide the you must get one as close as possible to the same height or buy one. They are selective. Same if you machine pump face or pocket.
Sometimes the size you need is not available, This happened to me recently. But I got one thicker and a few minutes with lathe issue solved. Pump half ssembled Pump area where rotor rides will have what people call witness marks . But you should see nor feel any gouges or cuts in surface, If you do again must be replaced or resurfaced. If you cut the pocket, then you must cut the flat surface by the exact same amount and again if you surface one flat you must do the other half.
Pump alignment - Some use a alignment tool. I never had best luck with those, Here is what I do, I put halves together and install bolts but only lightly snug them. Then before installing rings on stator , Insert pump into case and tap lightly down back and forth still it seats and with philips head through bolt hole moves easily in case and check that bolt holes are aligned. Then if right you should be able to lift it right out . gently flip over and torque bolts to 18 to 20 ft lbs, You can recheck by putting back in case and removing, Should drop right in and life right out.
Install teflon rings and pump o-ring (dont forget the thrust /bumper washer) install gasket and install pump and bolts with new o-rings/ Torque again 18 to 20 ft lbs.
That is about it for the pump. Note I do not put stops in the slide spring, While this may be ok with and older leaking pump. I have learned through experience. When a pump has been surfaced and you block the slide you can get uncontrollable line pressure as the slide is part of the regulation circuit .
Note - When getting bushings for the stator and want the wider one which I prefer, Don't ask for one for a 4l60E instead ask for stock one for a TH350 . They are the same bushing . THEN CHECK THE PRICE DIFFERENCE .
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Aug 15, 2024 at 10:00 PM.
I used the ATSG manual. Was pleased with it. I believe a .pdf of it is floating around for this trans.
Yes the ATSG manual is fine, But this thread goes beyond what is in it with various mods and improvements not in the ATSG manual. This is about Building a heavy duty / performance transmission.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Next will be Valve body mods, I will not be going into testing as various methods exist and are well explained in instructions to these and in my case with few exceptions I just address most issues needed or not. for instance Oringed bore plugs and end caps and more, I do have a vacuum test set up I made and a pressure test method I may show at a later time, But for the purpose of this thread I will just show all I do and address on every build.
This is the starter ,
1- I block the feed to the 4th accum always and delete the accum piston
2- This photo shows the valve body plate mods as are done on all units, Exception some stage 3 and max get low rev clutch mod. Which I will show a couple methods of doing at some place in the thread.
but this is my standard VB PLATE MODS.
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=460797183604256&set=a.203565635994080
I also use the bonded plates I get on amazon. Reason simplicity and they are GM and Cheap to be honest.
Some ask the difference between them and they list several. I have purchased one of each available and found the only difference between them are hole / feed sizes mostly with the FWD, 3-4, 2nd and servo feeds which are all changed in my builds anyway. these range in price from around 11 to 17 dollars . Are GM OE and work on all models with the exception of 93 and 94. Regardless all units get a brand new one, No point in skimping when they are so inexpensive.
(As Vortec notes below always check that the new plate has all the holes needed, And as necessary add them if you find they are not present)
Actual valve body mods next post.
And further explanation of plate mods.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Aug 15, 2024 at 08:48 PM.
It should be noted that there are many variants of that Gasket Bonded Separator Plate, and that not all of them are compatible with every Model-Year Transmission.
Especially those from 2006 and Up.
The Separator Plate that is Posted, for example does not have the Two Holes for the 3-2 Control Solenoid.
There are Holes Added and/ or Removed depending on the exact Separator Plate used.
The valve body plate mods are pretty universal as far as a shift kit goes with the exception of the overun mod shown at yellow and then the silver line connecting the forward oil to the overun circuit .
I use 3/16 aluminum rod cut about a 1/4 inch piece and place hole over a thin washer and place 3/16 bit you cut off and in hole and hit with hammer mashing to fit hole , then flip without washer and do the same . Make sure it solid in holes, (Note the 2005 vet already has one hole blocked, With those just block the remaining one and cut gasket the same) Then in the bonded plates case I use a dremel tool to remove gasket to connect the two passages at the silver line, This will cause the overun clutch to come on in all fwd gear positions except actual 4th gear at which time it will be vented. The purpose is extra support for the input sprag. With this mod done in literally 1000s of units I have yet to see an input sprag failure even in 1000hp units.
Of course you can change the feed sizes to your taste , These are just what I use. Oh and harder is not always better it is a compromise .
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Valve body mods Regulated apply oil acts at two points in the valve For this reason I put an oringed end cap at the converter regulator valve. These caps are usually badly eroded and leak alot meaning loss of regulated apply oil. In any case with replacement or an oringed replacement this should be addressed. I cut a .063 groove on lathe. And use AO13 from the green ring harbor freight kit. It was ask why I use the green rings. Simple they are stiffer firmer and less likely to tear during install of the ones i have tried.
Of course if you find you have a badly worn isolator valve etc and replace with the transgo or sonnax valve this is already covered.
Some choose to block this valve solid to front or use the fitzall fix valve and indeed at one time this was the most popular method. In addition some install the regulator valve backwards.
While this will make sure you do not get the dreaded component slipping code and resulting high line. And as long as converter lock parameters are left stock (only locking at part throttle light cruising) Probably ok.
If the converter is locked at WOT the converter clutch will experience full line pressure which can result in distortion of apply piston. converter back or even damage to the engine thrust bearing. So I do not suggest that method though indeed at one time myself like everyone probably did use it.
If you do want to convert to ON/OFF operations Sonnax makes a valve spring assembly for this that regulates the converter apply to around 100 PSI.
NOTE IMO NO SINGLE DISC or NON BILLET converter should ever be locked at WOT
The next mod I do to this valve assembly simply boost apply a little for smaller converter with smaller clutches though I do it with all that retain the PWM function.
I place a small spring behind the isolator valve. I use the 3/8 x 3/4 spring center pic And push valve forward then insert the spring till pops into place. This firms converter apply a bit and yes can compensate for some leakage but is not intended as a fix for a badly leaking valve and keeps Regulated apply converter function. Yes this can also be done in tuning but I like this system of doing it and have done it many years and never seen a component slipping code. I also do it with both the sonnax and transgo valves when I use them. Call it a TCC apply helper spring if you like.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Aug 15, 2024 at 10:05 PM.
Next - Because of its importance in the function of my OVERUN MOD and the again massive leak I have noted here. I always replace the end cap on the 3-4 signal valve with again a oringed cap. Its critical in that its function is not only to vent the overun during the 3-4 shift and bringing it back in during the 4-3. It also affects the 1-2 shift and can be the source of erratic shift feel on the 1-2 shift as well as the 3-4 and 4-3 downshift. It is important this valve moves freely and the spring should also be inpected behind it and this leak at the cap be addressed. At one time I would just flip the cap or replace. But I was doing some presure test with a plate I made and found even with a new cap . It leaked badly. Then with closer examination of several older VB found not only was the cap eroded the bore itself was also badly eroded at the cap.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Bore plugs at reverse abuse and forward abuse.
While yes a new plug will do pretty good here to limit leaks. I have noted again with some pressure that even with new ones and fitting pretty tight it still leaks significantly in these locations. While I cannot see the bore in this area I assume the body has been eroded or worn due to the movement these plugs have when in service.
Leaks here can affect reverse engagement and pressure and the 3-4 clutch oil leading to erratic sloppy reverse engagement and pressure apply issues with the 3-4 clutch leading to premature failure. For this reason I replace these with an oringed version also . This not only eliminates any leak here but also limits movement of the plug.
Again I place the plug in lathe and cut .063 groove and install a green oring on one end. (Again I choose the green ones because they are stiffer so less likely to tear or roll during install).
Some ask since you cannot see them after install how would you know if you damaged one ? Well I did play with this and found that even damaged with a pressure test they still seal much better than the bore plug alone. So an improvement in this area even if damaged during install. Though I find they usually go right in with a little hand force no issues well coated with assembly grease. AO11 from the HF KIT works well here. Yes I know! Wrong solenoid for this location. But oddy that is where is was in what was apparently a functioning core. It will be of course swapped but for now there to keep valve behind it from coming out. All shift solenoids are replaced in the build.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
I didn't make a photo of this But I also oring the plug at the PCS as I noted a couple showed signs of erosion. I also do the the Sonnax AFL VALVE KIT when needed. In this case it was not as this VB is actually from a pretty low milage core 2008. I know or think I know the miles because they were written on the core tag, It simply said Slipping in 3rd and 4h 70k miles.
The actions I am posting are things I do with every unit. Some require more attention. These are all things I do with all units regardless.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
I did not do pictures of installing the teflon rings on input shaft as they are self explanatory. But do suggest this kit a must for doing them or something similar.
When drum is complete air check again as shown earlier with a little oil around shaft. No bubbles you are good. I check at 170 psi . If it is going to leak it will then.
If it does leak, OOPS . back up, disassemble drum and remove pistons and little green oring and lube seal.
Clean all oil off drum and place drum on hot plate or stove to heat drum. I just use a cheap hot plate . set drum on plate with it on high.Use a laser thermometer through hole in drum and heat till center of drum not shaft is near 300 degrees, Shaft will stay comparably cool. With gloves remove drum from heat. Support bottom as sometime the shaft will just slide right out. But if not flip drum in a suitable holder and a few gentle taps the shaft should come right out. I do it this way to avoid further damaging drum removing shaft.
Check Splines for wear if you see any the drums no good. Check shaft to drum sealing area. Some minor erosion on either or both is normal. But if extreme get a new drum and or shaft.
But if only minor to moderate you can do one of two things. but first clean and remove all oil from drum and shaft.
Now you have a choice. You can use sealer made by loctite works well not to be confused with loctite for bolts which is useless for this purpose. But note takes at least 72 hours to cure at 75f before can be tested or used. Me I use something else, (super glue gel) . For this you want the drum warm but not hot and the shaft chilled and you will need a press, Chill shaft and heat drum to touchable but warm. coat inside of drum and shaft area that goes in drum semi liberally with the sealer or glue. Then place drum on press with something to support center of drum. Align the key together splines on shaft with same in drum . I use a marker on both before I start Then quickly press shaft back in drum till it stops. Clean any residue on top of drum off with cloth or if already setting a little fingernail polish on a rag. Blow through all all the holes with pressurized air . If you can keep drum warm 80 to 120f and in 24 hours with super glue gel and 72 hours with the locktite sealer. You can reassemble drum and retest. If no leaks you are good. If still leaks .You will need a drum.
(NOTE on the super glue gel. The shaft cannot be removed even with heating after cured. Attempts to remove will result in bringing bits of aluminum out with the shaft (yes I have tried it ) and do not try regular super glue. You are not fast enough. It will harden as you are installing shaft and shaft will get really hard to press in or get stuck)
Sorry no photos of this procedure as luckily on this one my drum was sealing well .
More in the morning.
Not to contradict what you do, but EVERY unit I build the shaft gets pressed out, leaking or not. And then reinstalled with loctite industrial shaft retainer. By the time i go through the trouble to check for leaks, i could have pressed it out and back in. I do scuff the shaft and drum lightly with 400 grit though. Usually freeze the shaft and heat the drum a little before pressing in but its not necessary. Thats just what I do, gives me peace of mind.
Not to contradict what you do, but EVERY unit I build the shaft gets pressed out, leaking or not. And then reinstalled with loctite industrial shaft retainer. By the time i go through the trouble to check for leaks, i could have pressed it out and back in. I do scuff the shaft and drum lightly with 400 grit though. Usually freeze the shaft and heat the drum a little before pressing in but its not necessary. That's just what I do, gives me peace of mind.
All good I understand and each has preferences to their ways and methods to builds , Just sharing mine.
Example I put all apply and backing plates on lathe even new ones (most time they are not actually flat )even new. 3-4
I love getting hold of the 700r4 and early 4l60e beveled backing plates when I can as they are generally very close to flat and I learned on lathe Much harder than the later thicker counterparts. (hard to cut. the late ones are soft and cut like butter in lathe)
Then of course my re-heat treating method described earlier may seem silly to some
.
Input - thoughts always welcome. I learn something new daily and pick up new ideas all the time.
My way is far from the Only way and I would will not even say the best way as many ways and methods exist to do things that simply work.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Aug 20, 2024 at 12:13 AM.
All good I understand and each has preferences to their ways and methods to builds , Just sharing mine.
Example I put all apply and backing plates on lathe even new ones (most time they are not actually flat )even new. 3-4
I love getting hold of the 700r4 and early 4l60e beveled backing plates when I can as they are generally very close to flat and I learned on lathe Much harder than the later thicker counterparts. (hard to cut. the late ones are soft and cut like butter in lathe)
Then of course my re-heat treating method described earlier may seem silly to some
.
Input - thoughts always welcome. I learn something new daily and pick up new ideas all the time.
My way is far from the Only way and I would will not even say the best way as many ways and methods exist to do things that simply work.
I'm going to try machining the plates like that. I usually lap them in on a piece of glass and sandpaper. How do you evenly heat them without rewarping them?
Bore plugs at reverse abuse and forward abuse.
While yes a new plug will do pretty good here to limit leaks. I have noted again with some pressure that even with new ones and fitting pretty tight it still leaks significantly in these locations. While I cannot see the bore in this area I assume the body has been eroded or worn due to the movement these plugs have when in service.
Leaks here can affect reverse engagement and pressure and the 3-4 clutch oil leading to erratic sloppy reverse engagement and pressure apply issues with the 3-4 clutch leading to premature failure. For this reason I replace these with an oringed version also . This not only eliminates any leak here but also limits movement of the plug.
Again I place the plug in lathe and cut .063 groove and install a green oring on one end. (Again I choose the green ones because they are stiffer so less likely to tear or roll during install).
Some ask since you cannot see them after install how would you know if you damaged one ? Well I did play with this and found that even damaged with a pressure test they still seal much better than the bore plug alone. So an improvement in this area even if damaged during install. Though I find they usually go right in with a little hand force no issues well coated with assembly grease. AO11 from the HF KIT works well here. Yes I know! Wrong solenoid for this location. But oddy that is where is was in what was apparently a functioning core. It will be of course swapped but for now there to keep valve behind it from coming out. All shift solenoids are replaced in the build.
Frank, not trying to tell you how to do something, but yet give you an idea. A ball burr a little bigger than the plug hole will chamfer it quickly and nicely to eliminate oring damage. Oringing these plugs are a good idea. I wish I would have done them on my sons trans I finished up sunday.
I'm going to try machining the plates like that. I usually lap them in on a piece of glass and sandpaper. How do you evenly heat them without rewarping them?
You can do it a couple ways , I hang them and use a bullet heater and since they do not get any place close to a molten state I have found they do not rewarp. the idea is get them to to what i call bluing heat then a quick splash through cold water them finish cooling in their own. This at least testing afterward with the lathe makes the outside harder (using cutting ease to test ) while allowing inside to retain it regular state to avoid being too brittle. Bear in mind I am not a metallurgist. Someone may pop in with a better way. But this seems to work for me. Other options to heat evenly would be and electric stove top on high (Note used plates actually have oil impregnated into them so smoking and fire is possible) The trick is to avoid warping again is to heat as evenly as possible, I hang very close to a bullet heater with mechanics wire. A torch likely would not work as it could never heat in any even or close to even manor and that would cause warping.
But to me flat is imperative to avoid hotspots, And the hardening process to help avoid flex.
I also always put the thickest steels to the outsides of the pack for the same reason , usually at least 1 .090 steel as the first steel at each end as I believe this helps with the structural integrity of the pack. In my HD units I like to do 7 thin frictions with all .090 steels as structure and heat dissipation is more critical than actual holding ability as they are rarely gonna see WOT application but rather a lot of part throttle cycling. On the opposite side I will go with thinner steels and 8 or 9 frictions with high performance units and set up for a much more aggressive shift to avoid heat of apply and maximize holding. But even then I try and place thick or thickest steel possible at outsides of the pack.
The one shown in this thread is the HD version. Also note I try and keep the backing plate as thick as possible in apply area. To make room for the frictions I cut the top of the plate around edge so it very much resembles the ford 4R7OW forward backing plate with the stepped edge to allow for the thick snap ring I also prefer.
Sorry i tend to over explain and get off on tangent I actually love talking tech of the units.
But back to heating the idea is to heat the plates as evenly as possible to avoid warping by whatever method you may choose . The thicker the plate the less likely it is to warp. IMO the early beveled plates from the 700r4 and 4l60e are the hardest steel as I have found both on the lathe and from years of noting even after many years of service many are straight or very close to it even when blackened heavily from slipping clutches. The late plates are almost always badly warped even when they have not been heated by slipping.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank, not trying to tell you how to do something, but yet give you an idea. A ball burr a little bigger than the plug hole will chamfer it quickly and nicely to eliminate oring damage. Oringing these plugs are a good idea. I wish I would have done them on my sons trans I finished up sunday.
Good Idea I have been using a wire pipe brush to dull the sharp edges . But will try that also.
Yes the ORINGS work spectacular. In all the areas I use them, Even at 175 PSI on the boost valve to apply through pump back I GET 0 LEAKAGE at ends.
The sonnax with rings seals as well . But I choose to do my own because the sonnax rings are too thin and flimsy easy to rip . I like the green bit thicker oring which are also a a bit firmer that sonnax. I have pulled out many sonnax over the years only to find the orings had ripped during install.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Next will be my band cooling mod as I mentioned , It was delayed as I did not have the bit I like to use which is a #60 wire size drill bit, I love the mod cause IMO it helps to keep drum cool which helps Keep band from burning but also helps keep the drum straight and help avoid the flaring you see many times when drums have been real hot.
But at same time I like the hole itself to be as small as possible as even a small hole moves a large volume of oil and you are taking away from the FWD clutch circuit with the mod, Though to date I have yet to see any sign of it being a problem even in units i have gotten back over year that had actual pressure issues from failed PCS ect.
Will add pics and a small vid tonight.
Again this is about how I build my units, It is not intended to be the know all be all of building units. In fact I am please with some of the suggestions on other ways to do things or a better way.
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=465562403127734&set=pcb.465562429794398
This feed is made with a #60 wire size approx. .0037 drill bit , Ideally as small as possible but this is the smallest I have found I can successfully and consistently use. Certainly no more than 1/16th inch. And note the FWD feed will need to be opened up on some plates. I say some because I find they are inconsistent from application to application so I make them all .093.
What this does is provides constant cooling to the band and drum in all situations. I Decided this was a good idea because I have noted hot spots on the drum with the markings showing the holes and stripes of the band. I gave this some thought and while it is only a logical conclusion I have no proof. I do not think this happens so much during the apply for second or even 4th but rather more likely the band slipping some in 4th making heat then stopping on drum.
imo when in 4th cruising pressure is relatively low and it is my thought that the band slips some generating heat in this instance, Some due to the lower line generating heat it slips a bit the stops leaving those heat marks.
The cooling mod keeps constant oil spraying the drum keeping it cool helping to avoid warpage and flaring of the drum and helping cool the band in 4th and during application.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; Aug 21, 2024 at 12:20 PM.
