4l80 pump to case bolt threads gave up on me
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
4l80 pump to case bolt threads gave up on me I was in the process of installing the 4L80, and I had spent a lot of time setting everything up. Everything was going smoothly, However, as I was tightening the pump to the case, the last bolt pulled the threads. I bought a helicoil kit and took extra care to getting it straight and more care not getting metal shavings in anything. After successfully installing the helicoil and torquing the pump down, I realized that I had forgotten to put a shim in place. When I removed the pump to fix this, the helicoil came out again. I'm at a loss for what to do next. Should I get another case? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm feeling really frustrated about the situation.
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 58
Likes: 5
In my opinion part of the problem is, it is impossible to use a hand drill and not have a hole become outa round or oversize, a person is not an accurate machine. Helicoils are the standard thread fix and sometimes always installed in production of aircraft parts.
Are they real Helicoils or some off brand? Are they long enough for the proper thread length? A few of the fixes I can think of, one to try something like a semi solid thread locker, and then making sure the last or upper helicoil wire is below the surface enough to make a stake in the
hole to prevent it from coming out. I'd be very careful with the thread lock, and let it set for a very long time maybe 48 hours or more, and then use solvent or ? to rinse the holes real good. And maybe even make a home made thread chaser from a bolt with no burr left on it, to clean any excess.
Most important the holes and the coil need to have no oil on them when using thread lock.
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us...000153639.html
This is just an idea, I've done many helicoils and not had problems with them.
Are they real Helicoils or some off brand? Are they long enough for the proper thread length? A few of the fixes I can think of, one to try something like a semi solid thread locker, and then making sure the last or upper helicoil wire is below the surface enough to make a stake in the
hole to prevent it from coming out. I'd be very careful with the thread lock, and let it set for a very long time maybe 48 hours or more, and then use solvent or ? to rinse the holes real good. And maybe even make a home made thread chaser from a bolt with no burr left on it, to clean any excess.
Most important the holes and the coil need to have no oil on them when using thread lock.
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us...000153639.html
This is just an idea, I've done many helicoils and not had problems with them.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Here is how I do Helicoils. DRILL , TAP, COAT THREADED INSTALLATION TOOL WITH LIGHT TRANS GEL , SCREW IT INTO THE HELICOIL CAREFUL TO AVOID GETTING GREASE ON OUTSIDE OF COIL, MAKE SURE CASE THREADS ARE CLEAN AND DRY, PUT SMALL ABOUT IF SUPER GLUE ON THREAD AND INSTALL QUICKLY , LET SET A MINUTE AN REMOVE TOOL . oops sorry for all caps .
Another better option but only if room a thread insert which is basically a bolt with a threaded hole in the middle. You can buy or I have actually made these from a bolt. But it is tedious. Also you might consider while some might say WRONG WAY just going up a bolt size and threading the case to that on that one bolt. Though you may or may not have to enlarge the hole in pump to accommodate (This is structurally probably the best path) though some would frown on it .
Another better option but only if room a thread insert which is basically a bolt with a threaded hole in the middle. You can buy or I have actually made these from a bolt. But it is tedious. Also you might consider while some might say WRONG WAY just going up a bolt size and threading the case to that on that one bolt. Though you may or may not have to enlarge the hole in pump to accommodate (This is structurally probably the best path) though some would frown on it .
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
Thanks for the advice guys. I thought about going up a bolt size the good news is it's not where all the fluid passages are, even thought about trying to put a stud in it. Like the other guy said it's almost impossible to hand drill this straight. I know I gotta completely disassemble this thing now. If anyone has a good late model case for sale, I feel like that's where I'm at right now.
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Thanks for the advice guys. I thought about going up a bolt size the good news is it's not where all the fluid passages are, even thought about trying to put a stud in it. Like the other guy said it's almost impossible to hand drill this straight. I know I gotta completely disassemble this thing now. If anyone has a good late model case for sale, I feel like that's where I'm at right now.
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
Honestly , Im a single old guy with cats and no life beyond doing transmissions lol
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Thanks for the advice guys. I thought about going up a bolt size the good news is it's not where all the fluid passages are, even thought about trying to put a stud in it. Like the other guy said it's almost impossible to hand drill this straight. I know I gotta completely disassemble this thing now. If anyone has a good late model case for sale, I feel like that's where I'm at right now.
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
Frank how do you find the time to do everything you do?
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 861
Likes: 404
From: Texas
Trending Topics
In my lifes experiences, I believe Frank is spot on! Usually the body shop owner is the guy who owns the cars that need bodywork, and works on everybody else's cars, putting in a lot of hours......
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Yes I would only do the one if i was doing it. Not much area there and the risk is to great . Not to mention the difficulty.
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
i set it on18 ftlbs no im not 100% the torque wrench is accurate. I had to step back away from it when i popped another hole. I used some oven cleaner and some zep degreaser on the case to clean it 6 months or so ago is it possible it weakened the case?It didnt sit on it long like 5 minutes or so.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
i set it on18 ftlbs no im not 100% the torque wrench is accurate. I had to step back away from it when i popped another hole. I used some oven cleaner and some zep degreaser on the case to clean it 6 months or so ago is it possible it weakened the case?It didnt sit on it long like 5 minutes or so.
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 58
Likes: 5
Only reason I say all holes is because if one had the stock threads pull then likely others are on the way as well. If I was doing the job the transmission would be stripped to clean it real well after wards. I would not what to have to keep taking it apart everytime I goofed another hole up.
On many aircraft type parts it is standard practice to install helicoils in every threaded hole in the part. They will wear much better than cast aluminum will, and even take over torques that cast aluminum will not too well. Its just a me thing.
I do not want to step on the toes of the top guys here that have a bunch of these transmissions under their belts, they know best and likely had certain problems and such.
On many aircraft type parts it is standard practice to install helicoils in every threaded hole in the part. They will wear much better than cast aluminum will, and even take over torques that cast aluminum will not too well. Its just a me thing.
I do not want to step on the toes of the top guys here that have a bunch of these transmissions under their belts, they know best and likely had certain problems and such.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Only reason I say all holes is because if one had the stock threads pull then likely others are on the way as well. If I was doing the job the transmission would be stripped to clean it real well afterwards. I would not what to have to keep taking it apart everytime I goofed another hole up.
On many aircraft type parts it is standard practice to install helicoils in every threaded hole in the part. They will wear much better than cast aluminum will, and even take over torques that cast aluminum will not too well. Its just a me thing.
I do not want to step on the toes of the top guys here that have a bunch of these transmissions under their belts, they know best and likely had certain problems and such.
On many aircraft type parts it is standard practice to install helicoils in every threaded hole in the part. They will wear much better than cast aluminum will, and even take over torques that cast aluminum will not too well. Its just a me thing.
I do not want to step on the toes of the top guys here that have a bunch of these transmissions under their belts, they know best and likely had certain problems and such.
and yes like on my aluminum heads on my IMPALA I noted they had heli coils in all the rocker stud holes and thought odd , But learned it was normal and in all the LT1 aluminum heads sock.
I only actually noted it because my studs backed out even after permanent Loctite and proper torque , I found that the little tabs at bottom were still there and messing with the torque of the stud , I was afraid to remove them as some of the holes with air applied were through and no idea where they went, So I CUT 2 THREADS off each of the studs so they would not hit that tab anymore. reinstalled again this would be second time , red locktite and torque and no issues since.
Just a useless tidbit lol
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
I personally think he has a torq wrench issue not a thread or case issue,
and yes like on my aluminum heads on my IMPALA I noted they had heli coils in all the rocker stud holes and thought odd , But learned it was normal and in all the LT1 aluminum heads sock.
I only actually noted it because my studs backed out even after permanent Loctite and proper torque , I found that the little tabs at bottom were still there and messing with the torque of the stud , I was afraid to remove them as some of the holes with air applied were through and no idea where they went, So I CUT 2 THREADS off each of the studs so they would not hit that tab anymore. reinstalled again this would be second time , red locktite and torque and no issues since.
Just a useless tidbit lol
and yes like on my aluminum heads on my IMPALA I noted they had heli coils in all the rocker stud holes and thought odd , But learned it was normal and in all the LT1 aluminum heads sock.
I only actually noted it because my studs backed out even after permanent Loctite and proper torque , I found that the little tabs at bottom were still there and messing with the torque of the stud , I was afraid to remove them as some of the holes with air applied were through and no idea where they went, So I CUT 2 THREADS off each of the studs so they would not hit that tab anymore. reinstalled again this would be second time , red locktite and torque and no issues since.
Just a useless tidbit lol
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1,162
From: BERWICK PA
Hey live and learn and this is why I am so old fashioned I use a torque wrench with the needle . Cause I know if you drop a click or digital just once they well are generally junk . With my needle inch and pound torque wrenches no issues and calibration is a snap.
Yup Im an old fart lol
Yup Im an old fart lol
__________________
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 47
Likes: 18
Hey live and learn and this is why I am so old fashioned I use a torque wrench with the needle . Cause I know if you drop a click or digital just once they well are generally junk . With my needle inch and pound torque wrenches no issues and calibration is a snap.
https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-03703...s%2C130&sr=8-2
Yup Im an old fart lol
https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-03703...s%2C130&sr=8-2
Yup Im an old fart lol