drivability question
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Ft. Bragg
drivability question will someone explain to me how a converter works i mean when you mash the pedal does the motor rev till you hit whatever it is set at or what i am a little foggy and no body around here that i know, knows either. thanks
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
When you go WOT the converter will reach it's stall speed.....Say you have a 3500 stall and go WOT while crusing at 40mph @1400rpm the converter will un-lock and allow the converter to slip up into it's stall speed around 3500ish rpm's and climb quickly untill you reach the shift point
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Originally Posted by 1jfuddle
PM sent
What a converter does:
1.)Higher RPM launches. While these examples are not 100% accurate because of outside factors, they will give you an idea of what happens with a stall converter.
Example 1- Your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband. Where it jumps to is called your flash stall.
Example 2- In Drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPMs the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose. You could roll onto the throttle at 3000 instead of the old 1200 with the stock converter.
2.)Shift extension. I am sure you are familiar with the notorious dead zone our cars have. You may not have heard it called that, you may not have even noticed it before, but I know you have felt it. Take your car out and find a place to get on it up to about 60 or so from a dead stop. It will feel really strong all through first gear particularly at the top RPMs because that is where LS1s like to be. Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3 if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple seconds. That is the dead spot. It feels weak until the RPMs get to where they should be and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPMs don't fall like they do with a stock converter. When I had my 4400 stall, the RPMs stayed above 5300 RPMs after the shift. With a milder converter, you could expect them to still stay WAY up there and completely get rid of the dead zone.
3.)Lighter weight. Almost every quality aftermarket converter is a 245mm conversion. That means that the manufacturer essentially took a 245mm converter and put a new back on it so that it would fit on a 300mm style car. It is then called a 245 conversion. The reason that it is done like this is because a converter works by moving fluid. The smaller internals can create more velocity enabling higher stall speeds. Also, there are TONS more internal parts on the market for 245 converters than the 300s. The 245 conversion torque converter is smaller and inherently lighter. A lighter converter gives you less rotational mass. Less rotational mass enables you to get off of the line more quickly and allows the engine to rev faster.
Picking a stall speed.
The first thing that I tell people is to be honest with yourself. What are your goals for the car and more than that, what will they be a year or two down the road. When I bought my first converter, I was convinced that I was going to keep the car relatively stock. I later went to a bigger stall to accommodate for the new power it was making from the heads/cam/full bolt ons. That worked great for a while. The next summer I decided on nitrous and suddenly, the huge stall I had was gone for a lower one. As you can see, picking a stall really depends on your plans.
If you would like, let me know about your plans for the car and we will get the right converter
Driveability:
When people refer to a converter being loose, they are talking about its slipping. Depending on the way the converter is set up, it could be looser than some or it could feel tight. Loose simply means that it takes more gas to get going. If you took a stock auto car and pressed the pedal in an inch, it would likely require pressing the pedal 2.5 inches to get the same effect. Basically it takes a higher RPM(more throttle) to get the car up to speed around town. A good example is that my car used to climb the driveway if I let off the brake, but now with the stall converter, it can barely stay put and even rolls back slightly. Personally, I like the feel of a stall car A TON better than a stock one.
1.)Higher RPM launches. While these examples are not 100% accurate because of outside factors, they will give you an idea of what happens with a stall converter.
Example 1- Your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband. Where it jumps to is called your flash stall.
Example 2- In Drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPMs the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose. You could roll onto the throttle at 3000 instead of the old 1200 with the stock converter.
2.)Shift extension. I am sure you are familiar with the notorious dead zone our cars have. You may not have heard it called that, you may not have even noticed it before, but I know you have felt it. Take your car out and find a place to get on it up to about 60 or so from a dead stop. It will feel really strong all through first gear particularly at the top RPMs because that is where LS1s like to be. Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3 if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple seconds. That is the dead spot. It feels weak until the RPMs get to where they should be and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPMs don't fall like they do with a stock converter. When I had my 4400 stall, the RPMs stayed above 5300 RPMs after the shift. With a milder converter, you could expect them to still stay WAY up there and completely get rid of the dead zone.
3.)Lighter weight. Almost every quality aftermarket converter is a 245mm conversion. That means that the manufacturer essentially took a 245mm converter and put a new back on it so that it would fit on a 300mm style car. It is then called a 245 conversion. The reason that it is done like this is because a converter works by moving fluid. The smaller internals can create more velocity enabling higher stall speeds. Also, there are TONS more internal parts on the market for 245 converters than the 300s. The 245 conversion torque converter is smaller and inherently lighter. A lighter converter gives you less rotational mass. Less rotational mass enables you to get off of the line more quickly and allows the engine to rev faster.
Picking a stall speed.
The first thing that I tell people is to be honest with yourself. What are your goals for the car and more than that, what will they be a year or two down the road. When I bought my first converter, I was convinced that I was going to keep the car relatively stock. I later went to a bigger stall to accommodate for the new power it was making from the heads/cam/full bolt ons. That worked great for a while. The next summer I decided on nitrous and suddenly, the huge stall I had was gone for a lower one. As you can see, picking a stall really depends on your plans.
If you would like, let me know about your plans for the car and we will get the right converter
Driveability:
When people refer to a converter being loose, they are talking about its slipping. Depending on the way the converter is set up, it could be looser than some or it could feel tight. Loose simply means that it takes more gas to get going. If you took a stock auto car and pressed the pedal in an inch, it would likely require pressing the pedal 2.5 inches to get the same effect. Basically it takes a higher RPM(more throttle) to get the car up to speed around town. A good example is that my car used to climb the driveway if I let off the brake, but now with the stall converter, it can barely stay put and even rolls back slightly. Personally, I like the feel of a stall car A TON better than a stock one.
Last edited by 1jfuddle; Dec 28, 2004 at 07:01 PM.
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,002
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From: cyberspace
Originally Posted by AK's WS6
Why not share?? I'm shure there is more to explain than what I posted (sorry, I really don't have the time to go into full detail) and i'm shure me and other could learn some more if you have valuable info.....Just a thought
Originally Posted by 1jfuddle
What a converter does:
1.)Higher RPM launches. While these examples are not 100% accurate because of outside factors, they will give you an idea of what happens with a stall converter.
Example 1- Your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband. Where it jumps to is called your flash stall.
Example 2- In Drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPMs the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose. You could roll onto the throttle at 3000 instead of the old 1200 with the stock converter.
2.)Shift extension. I am sure you are familiar with the notorious dead zone our cars have. You may not have heard it called that, you may not have even noticed it before, but I know you have felt it. Take your car out and find a place to get on it up to about 60 or so from a dead stop. It will feel really strong all through first gear particularly at the top RPMs because that is where LS1s like to be. Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3 if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple seconds. That is the dead spot. It feels weak until the RPMs get to where they should be and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPMs don't fall like they do with a stock converter. When I had my 4400 stall, the RPMs stayed above 5300 RPMs after the shift. With a milder converter, you could expect them to still stay WAY up there and completely get rid of the dead zone.
3.)Lighter weight. Almost every quality aftermarket converter is a 245mm conversion. That means that the manufacturer essentially took a 245mm converter and put a new back on it so that it would fit on a 300mm style car. It is then called a 245 conversion. The reason that it is done like this is because a converter works by moving fluid. The smaller internals can create more velocity enabling higher stall speeds. Also, there are TONS more internal parts on the market for 245 converters than the 300s. The 245 conversion torque converter is smaller and inherently lighter. A lighter converter gives you less rotational mass. Less rotational mass enables you to get off of the line more quickly and allows the engine to rev faster.
Picking a stall speed.
The first thing that I tell people is to be honest with yourself. What are your goals for the car and more than that, what will they be a year or two down the road. When I bought my first converter, I was convinced that I was going to keep the car relatively stock. I later went to a bigger stall to accommodate for the new power it was making from the heads/cam/full bolt ons. That worked great for a while. The next summer I decided on nitrous and suddenly, the huge stall I had was gone for a lower one. As you can see, picking a stall really depends on your plans.
If you would like, let me know about your plans for the car and we will get the right converter
Driveability:
When people refer to a converter being loose, they are talking about its slipping. Depending on the way the converter is set up, it could be looser than some or it could feel tight. Loose simply means that it takes more gas to get going. If you took a stock auto car and pressed the pedal in an inch, it would likely require pressing the pedal 2.5 inches to get the same effect. Basically it takes a higher RPM(more throttle) to get the car up to speed around town. A good example is that my car used to climb the driveway if I let off the brake, but now with the stall converter, it can barely stay put and even rolls back slightly. Personally, I like the feel of a stall car A TON better than a stock one.
1.)Higher RPM launches. While these examples are not 100% accurate because of outside factors, they will give you an idea of what happens with a stall converter.
Example 1- Your stock stall is around 1600 RPM. Get into the car and hold your foot on the brake. Now at the same time you let off of the brake, stab the throttle like you are at the track. Keep a close eye on the tach. It will jump to about 1600 RPM and start climbing from there. If you moved to a 3200 stall, it would jump to about 3200 and start climbing from there. It gives you a huge punch by launching at a higher RPM and at an RPM that is more in the meat of your powerband. Where it jumps to is called your flash stall.
Example 2- In Drive, hold your left foot on the brake as hard as you can. Now slowly rev the engine with your other foot. Notice that about 1200-1300 RPMs the tires start to break loose. Now imagine that you have a 3200 stall. You could now spin the motor closer to 3k before the tires started to brake loose. You could roll onto the throttle at 3000 instead of the old 1200 with the stock converter.
2.)Shift extension. I am sure you are familiar with the notorious dead zone our cars have. You may not have heard it called that, you may not have even noticed it before, but I know you have felt it. Take your car out and find a place to get on it up to about 60 or so from a dead stop. It will feel really strong all through first gear particularly at the top RPMs because that is where LS1s like to be. Notice immediately after the 1-2 shift (and 2-3 if you get that high) that it seems to fall flat on its face for a couple seconds. That is the dead spot. It feels weak until the RPMs get to where they should be and the power feels like it comes back. With a stall converter, the RPMs don't fall like they do with a stock converter. When I had my 4400 stall, the RPMs stayed above 5300 RPMs after the shift. With a milder converter, you could expect them to still stay WAY up there and completely get rid of the dead zone.
3.)Lighter weight. Almost every quality aftermarket converter is a 245mm conversion. That means that the manufacturer essentially took a 245mm converter and put a new back on it so that it would fit on a 300mm style car. It is then called a 245 conversion. The reason that it is done like this is because a converter works by moving fluid. The smaller internals can create more velocity enabling higher stall speeds. Also, there are TONS more internal parts on the market for 245 converters than the 300s. The 245 conversion torque converter is smaller and inherently lighter. A lighter converter gives you less rotational mass. Less rotational mass enables you to get off of the line more quickly and allows the engine to rev faster.
Picking a stall speed.
The first thing that I tell people is to be honest with yourself. What are your goals for the car and more than that, what will they be a year or two down the road. When I bought my first converter, I was convinced that I was going to keep the car relatively stock. I later went to a bigger stall to accommodate for the new power it was making from the heads/cam/full bolt ons. That worked great for a while. The next summer I decided on nitrous and suddenly, the huge stall I had was gone for a lower one. As you can see, picking a stall really depends on your plans.
If you would like, let me know about your plans for the car and we will get the right converter
Driveability:
When people refer to a converter being loose, they are talking about its slipping. Depending on the way the converter is set up, it could be looser than some or it could feel tight. Loose simply means that it takes more gas to get going. If you took a stock auto car and pressed the pedal in an inch, it would likely require pressing the pedal 2.5 inches to get the same effect. Basically it takes a higher RPM(more throttle) to get the car up to speed around town. A good example is that my car used to climb the driveway if I let off the brake, but now with the stall converter, it can barely stay put and even rolls back slightly. Personally, I like the feel of a stall car A TON better than a stock one.
"Personally, I like the feel of a stall car A TON better than a stock one."
Me too. Its funny because I didn't like it at first, but it grows on you. I have a pretty loose converter and now that I'm used to it, I wouldn't have it any other way.
A couple things you'll notice with a loose converter that I personaly enjoy:
1. You can sit at a red light without your foot on the brake and not move at all. While I wait for the light to turn green I hold my foot on the gas pedal.
2. You can rev your engine while driving without jerking forward. Its got to be quick or it jerks you twice as hard as stock (which is a good thing when you want to race).
3. You can rip a patch at anything less then 50mph. Make sure to have good traction (drag radials), or you'll break your tires completly loose and that could be scary at higher speeds.
4. You can launch like a muthafucka!
Me too. Its funny because I didn't like it at first, but it grows on you. I have a pretty loose converter and now that I'm used to it, I wouldn't have it any other way.
A couple things you'll notice with a loose converter that I personaly enjoy:
1. You can sit at a red light without your foot on the brake and not move at all. While I wait for the light to turn green I hold my foot on the gas pedal.
2. You can rev your engine while driving without jerking forward. Its got to be quick or it jerks you twice as hard as stock (which is a good thing when you want to race).
3. You can rip a patch at anything less then 50mph. Make sure to have good traction (drag radials), or you'll break your tires completly loose and that could be scary at higher speeds.
4. You can launch like a muthafucka!
