Manual vs. WOT downshifts?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Manual vs. WOT downshifts? Of course, a throttle-induced two gear WOT downshift is one of the greatest sensations one can get with an automatic. But it's held to be pretty destructive to the 4L60e. I'm wondering - would it be less damaging to ease the shifter into, let's say, second from fourth, being careful to rpm match it, and then to nail it and upshift manually? In some traffic situations there's enough time to do this, and the Transgo kit allows manual selection of any gear at any speed. Which would be harder on the tranny, and why?
Originally Posted by RevGTO
Of course, a throttle-induced two gear WOT downshift is one of the greatest sensations one can get with an automatic. But it's held to be pretty destructive to the 4L60e. I'm wondering - would it be less damaging to ease the shifter into, let's say, second from fourth, being careful to rpm match it, and then to nail it and upshift manually? In some traffic situations there's enough time to do this, and the Transgo kit allows manual selection of any gear at any speed. Which would be harder on the tranny, and why?
Originally Posted by BrandonSS
How can you RPM match with an auto. With the manual you must have the clutch engaged to "match the rpm" then let off to engage. With the auto it is engaged at all time with the t/c.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Originally Posted by BrandonSS
How can you RPM match with an auto. With the manual you must have the clutch engaged to "match the rpm" then let off to engage. With the auto it is engaged at all time with the t/c.
Originally Posted by RevGTO
Of course, a throttle-induced two gear WOT downshift is one of the greatest sensations one can get with an automatic. But it's held to be pretty destructive to the 4L60e. I'm wondering - would it be less damaging to ease the shifter into, let's say, second from fourth, being careful to rpm match it, and then to nail it and upshift manually? In some traffic situations there's enough time to do this, and the Transgo kit allows manual selection of any gear at any speed. Which would be harder on the tranny, and why?
Then when you upshift at wot it obviously won't actually shift when you move the lever unless your above the vcm's programmed wot shift point.
I'm not sure what two situations you're talking about. But I would say downshifting and then nailing the gas would not be good for anything, acceleration or the trans.
i know exactly what you mean- i'll be cruising in od and nail it to hit 2nd gear or in 3rd it'll shift to first. i also sometimes manually shift it down to 2nd and then nail it.
i would think letting it go from 3 to 1 would be harder on the trans than actually slowing down and shifting it to 1, then throwing it back in od and letting it upshift itself.
like you said, the car really hits hard and feels really fast when you go 3 to 1st so just don't do it all of the time, maybe save that for when trying to impress somebody or scare your girlfriend or something. i try to limit myself from doing it all of the time but sometimes i can't resist. 2.73's= 1st gear kickdown at 35mph! feels like you got punched in the back of the head if it doesn't spin!
im curious what a trans builder (like a sponsor) has to say about this.
i would think letting it go from 3 to 1 would be harder on the trans than actually slowing down and shifting it to 1, then throwing it back in od and letting it upshift itself.
like you said, the car really hits hard and feels really fast when you go 3 to 1st so just don't do it all of the time, maybe save that for when trying to impress somebody or scare your girlfriend or something. i try to limit myself from doing it all of the time but sometimes i can't resist. 2.73's= 1st gear kickdown at 35mph! feels like you got punched in the back of the head if it doesn't spin!
im curious what a trans builder (like a sponsor) has to say about this.
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dunno if this has anything to do with what is being discussed (lol) but thought id mention it. (a4) sometimes i will be driving in 2nd gear and il take it up to 40 at normal speed.. i noticed if i let the car drop back down to 30mph by itself, and then i nail it, the rpms jump to 6k and it takes off like a ****. is this what you were saying was destructive to 4l60e's? an can someone tell me what i am doing to my car when i do this?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Originally Posted by jxaxsxoxn
I'm not sure what two situations you're talking about. But I would say downshifting and then nailing the gas would not be good for anything, acceleration or the trans.
Last edited by RevGTO; Mar 20, 2005 at 10:56 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Alton, IL, USA
I did it all the time on my 93 and it's still alive (over 80k miles). I never did it with my 01 and it's been rebuilt once now (33k miles).
I think that you COULD do more damage shifting manually, but if you did it right, then it prolly wouldn't hurt it much (if at all).
I think that you COULD do more damage shifting manually, but if you did it right, then it prolly wouldn't hurt it much (if at all).
A 4 to 2 downshift is easier for a 4L60-E to do than a 3-2 downshift. It is a single event of disengaging the 3-4 clutch pack. Downshifting from 3 to 2 has to release the 3-4 clutch pack and engage the band at the same time. There is a valve specifically for doing this just to make sure it doesn't let the engine over-rev trying to pull that off.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Originally Posted by James B.
A 4 to 2 downshift is easier for a 4L60-E to do than a 3-2 downshift. It is a single event of disengaging the 3-4 clutch pack. Downshifting from 3 to 2 has to release the 3-4 clutch pack and engage the band at the same time. There is a valve specifically for doing this just to make sure it doesn't let the engine over-rev trying to pull that off.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
Originally Posted by James B.
A 4 to 2 downshift is easier for a 4L60-E to do than a 3-2 downshift. It is a single event of disengaging the 3-4 clutch pack. Downshifting from 3 to 2 has to release the 3-4 clutch pack and engage the band at the same time. There is a valve specifically for doing this just to make sure it doesn't let the engine over-rev trying to pull that off.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
Keep in mind that mechanically the 4L60-E is only a 2-speed auto with overdrive.
if the tranny shifts on its own, all its doing is releasing the 3/4 clutch
if you manually shift, the tranny is releasing the 2/4 band and applying the overrun clutch to shift into third
then to go to second releases the 3/4 clutch, and then re-apply the 2/4 band
and it tries to accomplish all this in the time it takes you to move the shifter
so the transmission does less work(hence less wear), if you let it shift on its own
after that, there is no difference