Exactly what is wrong with the 4L60E transmissions?
FormerVendor
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,123
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From: D-F/W
Well stated there chris718. I was in a conversation with a young but highly respected engine builder in my area last week. He made the comment that went something like..." The 4L60E just wasn't designed to be a racing transmission." I pointed out to him that there really has never been an automatic transmission designed and built by domestic factories that was designed to be a race trans.
I don't disagree that it is not appropriate for "most drag cars". But with todays technology it can be made into a respectable unit that satisfies the desire for overdrive in a relatively lightweight package.
One of the biggest problems I see is a significant lack of maintenance in double duty trannies. Those that see daily commuting and then see the track on the weekends. I have seen cars with 2 yr old fluid in them and the customer is just whining about what a piece of crap their trans is. Education is the key.
g
I don't disagree that it is not appropriate for "most drag cars". But with todays technology it can be made into a respectable unit that satisfies the desire for overdrive in a relatively lightweight package.
One of the biggest problems I see is a significant lack of maintenance in double duty trannies. Those that see daily commuting and then see the track on the weekends. I have seen cars with 2 yr old fluid in them and the customer is just whining about what a piece of crap their trans is. Education is the key.
g
Last edited by Gilbert@Ace Racing; Jan 16, 2007 at 09:17 AM.
I would agree that the ratios are not ideal for a pure bread drag racer for that a th400 or even a power glide would be better suited but most people running these cars are running them as DD and for that purpose the 4L60E is and excellent unit , It gives the best of both worlds and when built properly can take quite a beating. But as I said before its more than parts alot more.
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mechanical weak links related to torsional twisting exist
in the input and output shafts at the locations of the many transverse oil holes drilled into the shafts to supply clutch apply,converter and lube oil,as well as at the seal ring grooves and valleys between them necessary in the design of the shafts functionality.so far we are the only people producing both items out of e4340 steel billet blanks.
in the input and output shafts at the locations of the many transverse oil holes drilled into the shafts to supply clutch apply,converter and lube oil,as well as at the seal ring grooves and valleys between them necessary in the design of the shafts functionality.so far we are the only people producing both items out of e4340 steel billet blanks.
How well would a stock 4l60e with some upgrades hold up to about 400-500 supercharged whp that doesn't see much track time or sticky tires. I am looking into a small amount of boost for my '02 TA (maybe 7-9psi) with an improved mild camshaft. I really don't see myself drag racing this car since I am working in Germany, but I do plan on whipping up on some European cars on the highway. I might take it on myself to upgrade the internals to better components, but that will be later on.
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people bash the 4L60E because, frankly, they are total idiots. complete and total ignorant fools. there are people on this site that take a stock car with ~350 horsepower, throw on fulll exhaust, a stall and heads and a cam, throw down 500 rwhp and say "durr why did my 4L60E break? what a piece of junk!"
are you SERIOUS? NO TRANSMISSION should last in stock form when you add 100 horsepower to the car and up the shift points 1,000 rpms. the 4L60E is a fine transmission - one of the better transmissions out there. you can put a stock 4L60E behind nearly any motor of a production car out there and it'll hold up fine. try doing that, honda. take a honda automatic and put it behind an LS1. no honda automatic can take that abuse because they're pieces of ****.
the 4L60E is flawed, yes, but EVERY OEM piece of equipment is flawed somewhere if you look hard enough. people complain because their STOCK automatic can't hold heads and a cam shifting 1,000 rpm's over the stock shift points, and they're idiots for doing so. on a stock car, the 4L60E sees 150,000 miles all the time. on a lightly modded car (stall, cooler, headers, cold air, exhaust), it holds up great - and that's with ~50 horsepower added. it shows it weakness when you add a cam and up the shift points - effectively throwing 75 - 100 horsepower over stock power up 800 - 1,000 rpm's higher than it was ever meant to go. of course it's gonna break.
it's a fine transmission. just build it accordingly, just like any other automatic out there.
are you SERIOUS? NO TRANSMISSION should last in stock form when you add 100 horsepower to the car and up the shift points 1,000 rpms. the 4L60E is a fine transmission - one of the better transmissions out there. you can put a stock 4L60E behind nearly any motor of a production car out there and it'll hold up fine. try doing that, honda. take a honda automatic and put it behind an LS1. no honda automatic can take that abuse because they're pieces of ****.
the 4L60E is flawed, yes, but EVERY OEM piece of equipment is flawed somewhere if you look hard enough. people complain because their STOCK automatic can't hold heads and a cam shifting 1,000 rpm's over the stock shift points, and they're idiots for doing so. on a stock car, the 4L60E sees 150,000 miles all the time. on a lightly modded car (stall, cooler, headers, cold air, exhaust), it holds up great - and that's with ~50 horsepower added. it shows it weakness when you add a cam and up the shift points - effectively throwing 75 - 100 horsepower over stock power up 800 - 1,000 rpm's higher than it was ever meant to go. of course it's gonna break.
it's a fine transmission. just build it accordingly, just like any other automatic out there.
The 4L60E is not as weak as you have heard.
The condition of it depends on what (if any) maintenance the previous owner performed.
There are lots of us that beat on ours every day with no problems.
Then there are people who have them fail, and have to move up to built units.
The condition of it depends on what (if any) maintenance the previous owner performed.
There are lots of us that beat on ours every day with no problems.
Then there are people who have them fail, and have to move up to built units.
Agreed.
My 02 Z28 has 250,000 miles on the 4L60e and drives great no slip. Gets 27+ mpg highway. Probably wouldn't live long now days if beat on very much. Had a 700R4 go 389,500 miles and was still good when pulled. Regular fluid & filter changes really help an automatic transmission live longer.
Look at the diameter of the frictions/steels from the 60e to the 80e. If you want to throw a bunch of $ in a trans, by all means, build a 65e. If you want to put a shift kit in one and have it live, just do the 80e swap, and be done with it. My 65e has been built 3x. Its junk......again. Oh yeah, so everyone can say it "wasn't built right". Well, it was all within spec. It was built 2x by a couple of local builders, and 1x by myself and a friend. Everytime with all good parts. So, if it takes someone who is across the country to "properly build one", then what good is it? Yes, I know FLT and others can build a hell of a good 65e, but i shouldn't have to spend that much $ to have a trans, when literally, a junkyard, taken care of 80e holds better than my rebuilt 65e? JMO, spend your $ anyway you want.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
11 years under our collective belts since this thread was started. Has anything been learned? Or is it the same old "4L60e is junk" vs. "4L60e works great if properly built for the application"?
Last edited by RevGTO; Jan 11, 2019 at 11:35 PM.
TECH Resident
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I have helped many hundreds to build their own 4L60E's or having a competent builder build it, with using my rebuild kits and information, have done well over the past 22+ years. From running in the 13's to running mid 9's successfully, and rarely having to do it a second time. When the statement was made (it "wasn't built right"). They were correct, it was not built with the correct parts to match the motor build (horsepower and torque), torque converter size and stall, rear end gear ratio, etc., and what the vehicle is used for? When some builder says that you cannot make a 700R4 or 4L60E hold up to 700FWHP. They are correct, "they cannot".
I have helped many hundreds to build their own 4L60E's or having a competent builder build it, with using my rebuild kits and information, have done well over the past 22+ years. From running in the 13's to running mid 9's successfully, and rarely having to do it a second time. When the statement was made (it "wasn't built right"). They were correct, it was not built with the correct parts to match the motor build (horsepower and torque), torque converter size and stall, rear end gear ratio, etc., and what the vehicle is used for? When some builder says that you cannot make a 700R4 or 4L60E hold up to 700FWHP. They are correct, "they cannot".
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jul 2015
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Do what most people do when they are serious about longevity, and cost effectiveness when they have a hot mill underhood. Ditch the 4l60 and move on, there's a reason why when you're at the track, there's 2 main (auto) transmissions that are in play....well 3 (Th400 Th350 4L80). No weird voodoo or seance needed with any of those. Next time you are at the track, when you see one of the faster cars teleport down the track, go inquire about their transmission, almost guaranteed not to be a 4l60 of any level.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I agree with @RevGTO . Rehashing the same "it's junk" vs. "it's not" in the same thread after 11+ years is pointless. Nothing new here. Haters will continue to hate them, and competent builders will continue to build them successfully.
The end.
The end.
04, 410, 4l60e, back, bolts, boneville, break, gears, horsepower, max, overheating, points, shift, tire, transmission
