Here comes another 2nd Gen Build...
 

I'm not really new to the forum, but obviously haven't posted out here very much...mostly just do a lot of reading. Anyways, I aquired a pretty nice 73' Z28/RS last weekend, and I am already getting underway with a swap in it.

When I got it......

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...1/DSCF6243.jpg

and the next day after getting it home....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...o/DSCF6491.jpg

The car actually had a pretty decent alum headed 355 in it backed by a built Th350, but it had some oil leaks and besides that it also came with an 08' LY6 6.0 (823 heads), and I've been saving a D&D T56 on one of my garage shelves for just such a project! :D

Anyways, I've been reading through some of the 2nd gen build threads out here already, searching the forums, the internet, etc. trying to gather as much info as possible to begin ordering parts, so I thought I'd go ahead and start up a post here to kick it off with a few questions/clarifications.

Carb setup - I would really like to go with a carb setup on this car, but I'd also like to put a stock flat hood back on the car too....appears that may be a problem from what I've read so far? Maybe just go with the Performer intake as opposed to the Vic Jr?

Engine Mounts - From what I've read about mounts, it seems that the general consensus is to go with plates from The Car Shop...are these going to put me as low as I'll need to go in the chasis to try to gain hood clearance?

Oil Pan - I've seen that a lot of guys are running the H3 pan, but it looks like that one will still hang down an inch or two below the cross-member...does that sound about right? I'm a little concerned on that with how low the stance is on my car. The car is already equipped with QA1's, so I have some adjustment there, but I still intend to keep the car as low as possible.

Headers - The Edelbrocks looks pretty nice, but is there a decent shorty or 3/4 length header I can use? Again, clearance issues in-mind, but the car also already has a really nice exhaust system (with short headers) that I'd like to try to adapt and re-use.

Accessory Brackets - I'm no where near knowing what to do on this one! :) For now I just need to run Alt and PS, but very good chance I'll go back with some AC later in the year...should I be looking to the Camaro/Vette setup or just try to fab up my own stuff? I have seen the custom setups out there, but ~$800 isn't sounding too good to me.

Trans Crossmember and Hydraulics - Looks like the one from BRP Hot Rods has been recommended out here several times and reasonably priced....anyone out here actually used one with a T56? I did a T56 in a first gen years back and actually fabbed up my own crossmember from an old Th400 one and some steel tubing. I also made my own plate for the master, but it took a bit of trial and error....I'm thinking to buy one may be a better bet this time.

And finally....

Engine - As I indicated above its an LY6. Since it has fairly low miles my intention at this point is to just mill the heads a little to get the compression up and do a cam swap with some matching valve springs....with a carb setup it seems very reasonable that I can easily get 400+hp out of it. Is my line of thinking out of line? Since this is a VVT engine, I know I'll have to change out the timing set too...anything else I should be aware of there? I'm also interested to hear what camshafts you guys have had best luck with in a carb setup? It looks like these engines like about ~.580-.600 lift, and I'm thinking ~112 LSA since it'll be carb'd. Perhaps something in range of around ~220-230 duration @.050....am I very far off? Since it'll be a manual I don't mind a lumpy idle (prefer some lope to it actually), but of course sound isn't my main goal here....I want to have driveability with it and also get the most power I can at the same time.

Sorry for the long first post, and TIA for any advice/comments. I plan to take a lot of pics and will try to keep this updated as I go through it. I'd like to have the car back on the road by the end of June...about 2-2.5 months from now....I know it's an agreesive timeline but I'm pretty certain I can pull it off.

Hey There,

Smokin' project...great starting point....

As far as the oil pan...DO NOT USE the H3 pan...it hangs far to low on....well....everything. Since you are lowered it makes it even worse.

As for accessories...you can use a Vette set-up but keep your eyes out for a used set, they go really fast. Here's my LY6 in my '69 Olds 442 project.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/IMG_8959.jpg

Great looking project...keep us updated!
Dave

I don't think there is a huge difference in height between the Performer and Vic Jr. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. If that actually is the case, then I would select an intake based on performance goals. Are you just really wanting to put a stock flat hood back on? I think the cowl that's on it looks pretty mean.

That is one sharp looking Z!! Those front ends just look so tough IMO. Good luck with the build!!

Carb Setup - Do they have a Performer intake for Gen IV motors? I thought they only had the Victor Jr for them.

Oil Pan - I've heard the Fbody pan has the best clearance. Not sure how easy they are to get or how much they cost, my engine is from an fbody.

Headers - According to another thread I read recently Edelbrock has stopped making their conversion headers. Link I have the dynatech headers but haven't gotten them in yet so can't say anything about their fitment.

Accessories - I've heard either the fbody or corvette accessories will work, so get whichever you can. Only thing is you'll either have to notch the frame to have ac or get a new bracket to mount it up high.

Engine - Contact Texas Speed & Performance if you want a recommendation on an off the shelf cam (they recommended the Torquer v.3 for my 5.7) or have Patrick G spec you a custom cam if you want to go that route, either way is highly recommended on this site.

If you haven't found it yet, NastyZ28 is another great site and has a section just for these types of swaps with lots of great info.
Beautiful car btw.

Thanks for the info...how about the CTS-V pan?....I see it mentioned a lot too. That's a great looking setup you've got going there! I like those valve covers!

Thanks! After the post below I did some more investigating and I'm realizing now that the Performer isn't an option on Gen IV motors. I didn't realize that before....I suppose I need to get some more specific measurements and think this one through a little bit more. I may end up needing to go with EFI just to get the clearance I'm wanting.

For the hood....I'm just not a big fan of cowl hoods on these cars anymore (unless it's one that is setup like a drag car). My car being a Z already has the big rear tail and I think the hood is a bit much along with that. just a personal preference thing really.

Thanks a bunch for the info! You are correct...no more headers from Edelbrock and a big negative on a Performer manifold for gen IV engines. I wasn't aware of Texas Speed and Performance....I'll look them up too.

np, and I feel the same way about cowl hoods as you do so if I'm forced to go that route I will be going as small as I can with the lowest filter I can get. and some quick research on nastyz28 shows the cts-v pan to be the second choice after the fbody pan. didn't see any pics of clearance though.

Nice! camaro

Great looking car to start out with! I honestly wish every now and then that I would have started my swap project with something that clean/complete. But oh well....life goes on. I was reading through your first post and formulating some answers for you in my head, but as I read down through the replies it looks like you've already gotten some good feedback on the stuff I could have helped out with. However, I'll just echo the following based on my experiences with my 73 Camaro LY6 swap:

1. Definatley go with the Car Shop plates for a hassle free install.

2. I'm running the H3 pan and it'll be fine, but if I had it to do over I'd run the F-body or CTSV pan. In fact, I'll probably make that swap when I build a 408.

3. If you can run across some Edelbrock headers used or still in stock somewhere, I think they'd be worth picking up for a lowered car. They tuck very nicely to the floor in my car. Can't speak for any other brand.

4. Definatately contact PatrickG for cam specs. I didn't, but I will for the next build.

Again......great looking car you picked up to start out with. I'll definately be following along to see how it turns out.

if that car had titts ...i'd be divorced again... good luck with the build!

i see you mentioned a good set of shorty headers was on of your considerations i was looking into going with a set of Sanderson LS150 Chevy LS1 Blockhugger Header. I have seen them used in a second gen mag write up cant remember exactly but the look like they might work well. By the way the gmpp pan worth a look. and vvt you will have to change the lifters to a regular set they have a different lifter that is active only under load.Look at Texas speed and performance for cam.

Not true. I think you're confusing VVT with AFM/DoD. On motors (like the OP's LY6) with only VVT, the lifters do not need to be changed. They only need changed when deleting AFM or DoD.

Nice color choice for the block Bandit.
I used brp mounts and f-body pan and pulleys.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...Picture010.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...Picture014.jpg

I haven't updated this thread in a while, so figured I'd post back with some updates. The biggest thing to report is that I scratched the whole carb plan ...since my last post my direction has taken a whole new turn and I'm still learning as I go along.

So this is what I've marked off the list so far....

- Engine Mounts from Ebay (Nickelson2039) - supposed to be same as carshop
- All clutch hydraulics, reservoir and clutch master cylinder mounting plate from DSE
- F-body cooling fan assy.
- Currently in line with TDP for a new T56, clutch and flywheel
- LS3 intake, injectors and fuel rails (found really cheap off of CL)
- Y-Body Accessory drive (although now I'm finding that I might have some clearance issues between the VVT front cover and Y-body water pump)
- MAST VVT Stage-2 Cam kit (they talked me into staying with the VVT setup)
- MAST M90 Control package (harness, ECM, gas pedal, etc.)

The MAST harness is really nice, I'm VERY impressed with it so far....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...o/DSCF6617.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...o/DSCF6614.jpg

These are the items I am still trying to make some decisions on:

- Headers (biggest thing right now). I haven't had any luck finding a set of Edelbrocks, so I've narrowed down to either the mid length BRP's - http://www.brphotrods.com/mm5/mercha...gory_Code=CNV2 or the Dynatech's - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/NEW-Dy...LS2,41927.html My car already has a nice exhaust system that was built with mid-length headers on the old SBC, so I'm thinking that the BRP mid-length headers will probably line up pretty well, and they will for sure afford me the ground clearance I need. However, on the other hand the Dynatech's I'm sure will perform better with the larger primaries and also being a full length header too...it doesn't hurt that they are $100 cheaper either. I'm just not sure how much ground clearance I'll have with the long tubes.

- Accessory Drive - like I mentioned above, I am hearing that I am going to run into an interference issue with the VVT front cover and corvette water pump...so now I'm thinking that I might just order up a bracket set from kwifperf.com...their's has spacing that will allow me to run the truck water pump and balancer that I already have, but moves alt and PS into the Y-body locations. Figure I can always resell the Y-body setup that I bought....or keep it on a shelf for the next one. :)

- Heads - I currently have the heads off of the engine because I wanted to inspect everything, clean them up, and had also been advised that I should mill them .030 to bump compression a little. However, now that I am going with the VVT cam, I'm concerned with clearance....I've been reading that the VVT setup really limits you on piston-to-valve clearance, so I'm wondering if I should just play it safe and go back as-is without milling them any. Just not sure which way to go on this one.

Fuel System - My friend at MAST recommended that I just go with their 401-201 complete system. It comes with all of the braided line, fittings, adapaters, dead head (Vette) regulator and uses an inline Walbro 240 pump. It's $400 for the whole kit which doesn't seem too bad at all once you add everything up. However, with this setup I'll just have to figure out what sort of pickup to use in my tank (think I can upgrade to a 3/8 straw for the sending unit and then just rig a return and be fine....this route saves me from mods on the actual tank itself except for maybe the return. However, the other option is to go with a Tanks Inc. drop-in pump and then piece the rest of it together. This option is for sure more costly, and likely to cause more headaches with the install (having to cut the tank, etc)....but it seems to be preferred to run in-tank pumps for EFI.

Here's a more recent pic of the car....sitting up on some cribs that I built (stolen DSE idea :))....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...mo/Oncribs.jpg

Things are looking great man! I'll bet you're excited!

Just a word of caution on those plates. I looked up that seller you noted on ebay and saw a picture of his plates and I'm pretty sure they're the same one's I had originally. And I've gotta tell you....if I looked at the right ones, they are NOT the same as the car shop plates due to the thickness of the plates and the motor mount hole locations.

Check out my post here to see what issues these plates caused me. You'll have to scroll down to the middle of my post to get to the relevant part about the plates:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/13490030-post11.html

And then look here for a comparison between these plates and my car shop plates. Again, the relevent information is in the middle of this post too:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/13521874-post38.html

The problem with the ebay plates from that guy is a combonation of the thickness of the plates and the motor mount hole location. Just look at where the holes are for mounting the clamshells to the plates. If they are even with the holes used for mounting the plates to the LS block, you're gonna have issues. The threaded motor mount holes need to be lower on the plate to move the mounts closer together. These will work with the older stand stlye GM mounts, but not with the clamshells. I hope this saves you some trouble.

EDIT: I just went back to ebay and read the full description for those plates. They aren't the exact ones I had before because he is building them out of 5/16ths and the ones I originally had were 3/8. So, that will help things out a little, but you still may have issues due to the hole location. They're at least worth a try though since they're at least thinner like the car shop plates. Let us know how it turns out.

beautiful 2nd gen!

Thanks! You are correct on your edit...apparently there are 2 guys that sell the plates regularly on Ebay. 1 sells the 3/8" plates and has a disclamier against the 5/16" plates, and the other sells the 5/15" with a disclaimer about the 3/8"....a little counter-marketing against one-another I guess. :) Anyways, I thought I would give the 5/16" plates a shot since they were only ~$34 to my door. However, it looks like the bolt holes are indeed up higher same as your first set...so I might have some trouble still....we'll find soon though, and I'll post back on progress.

Here's a pic -

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...o/DSCF6623.jpg

Do you think it's made any difference being able to raise the tranny up a little higher in the tunnel? I actually went ahead and ordered the Dynatech's just this week. I was initially leaning more towards the mid length BRPs, but I called and talked to a guy out there about them and he didn't seem too optimistic about using them without their engine mounting kit, which I really don't want to spend the money on. In addition I got thinking that the Dynatechs are going to be a little better with the 1 7/8" primaries as opposed to the 1 3/4" on the BRPs....plus $100 less is a bonus too. They said that they wouldn't be able to ship out until around first week of June, so it'll be a bit before they get here....I hope to have the engine back together and reacy for test fit by that time.

Thanks!

Beautiful car....:drool: . Definately on my garage "bucket-list".

Doubt those plates will work unfortunately, I bought a similar set and the holes are in the wrong area compared to the car shop ones :(

Update on my headers....as I posted above, I called and ordered the Dynatech headers from Speedway Motors last week. However late Friday I got a msg back from the sales guy out there saying that they were going to have at least a 2-week delay in shipping them, and if that was too long to call them back and they would be happy to cancel the order.

The delay didn't really bother me so much, but after seeing the pictures from the linked thread above I put a bunch more thought into it over the weekend, and decided that I am going to roll the dice on the BRP mid-lengths instead. As you can see in the first post above my car sits pretty low and the old setup with mid-length headers on the SBC tucked up under the car really well...with seeing how much those Dynatech's hung down under the subframe I think I'd be scraping everywhere if I went with them. The downside is that the BRPs are smaller (1 3/4" vs 1 7/8"), but I'm willing to give up the 10-15hp difference to keep it from scraping. I just hope I'll be okay using them without BRPs ~$500 engine/trans mount kit....seeing that they are only mid-lengths and with smaller primaries, I'm hoping it won't be a problem.

Speedway seemed very cool about it too...they said no problem, they'd cancel the order and issue a refund today.