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Differences in versions of 4L60E's

 
Old 02-26-2009, 07:07 AM
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Default Differences in versions of 4L60E's

I am doing a swap from M6 F-body LS1 to change it over to A4... I am having a hard time finding a usable F-body core. Truck cores are all over and far cheaper. I know that 2WD and 4WD truck trans are different output shafts. What are the other differences between the various late bolt-on 4L60E's? I know the tailshaft housing is different, is there output shaft length differences between the 2WD truck and an F-body? What about input shafts and shift linkages? Can a shift linkage or extension housing from a 6 cyl F-body be used to convert a truck 4L60E to F-body specs? What about anything else like a Trailblazer L6 core?
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:43 AM
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I went to a 4l70 no problems. BTW I have a LS1 4l60 out of a running car SS Camaro that I am getting ready to sell complete. PM me if interested.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:37 PM
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I'm interested myself in the differences of the 4L60e's between the 1993 - 1997 and the 1998-2004.

1. Any electrical hardware differences that will prevent a 93-97 from plugging directly into a 2004 5.3 GMC Sierra Engine PCM?

2. Will the stock adjustment hardware for the shifter from a TH350 bolt directly to all years from 93-04?

3. Will the 93-97 4L60e bolt directly to the Gen III engine with no adapters or spacers?

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger for a 5.3 engine from an 04 GMC sierra and wanted to make sure when I buy the tranny I get the one with the least amount of work......I didn't want to buy an earlier version and find out that I need some "extra" parts to make it work with my engine.

Going in a 76 Camaro.......


Lastly is there a good source for a tailshaft housing conversion with the cable driven gear? I need to make the newer transmission work with my stock speedometer and still keep all the electronic stuff on the tranny for the PCM.

I found one site but they wanted $395 - 495 for the "kit" and I wanted to find a cheaper source.

Thanks again....and this is my first post so be gentle because I did search

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Old 12-02-2009, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 1976CamaroGuy View Post
I'm interested myself in the differences of the 4L60e's between the 1993 - 1997 and the 1998-2004.

1. Any electrical hardware differences that will prevent a 93-97 from plugging directly into a 2004 5.3 GMC Sierra Engine PCM?

2. Will the stock adjustment hardware for the shifter from a TH350 bolt directly to all years from 93-04?

3. Will the 93-97 4L60e bolt directly to the Gen III engine with no adapters or spacers?

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger for a 5.3 engine from an 04 GMC sierra and wanted to make sure when I buy the tranny I get the one with the least amount of work......I didn't want to buy an earlier version and find out that I need some "extra" parts to make it work with my engine.

Going in a 76 Camaro.......


Lastly is there a good source for a tailshaft housing conversion with the cable driven gear? I need to make the newer transmission work with my stock speedometer and still keep all the electronic stuff on the tranny for the PCM.

I found one site but they wanted $395 - 495 for the "kit" and I wanted to find a cheaper source.

Thanks again....and this is my first post so be gentle because I did search

From my research...
1. Any 1993 to 1997 4L60E is electronically the same but I read somewhere once the 1993's have a slightly different pinout. I was never able to verify the 1993 pinout thing so it may be BS.

2. A Turbo 350 shifter should actuate the transmission but you won't be able to select first gear. I haven't tried this but the actuator coming from the transmission looks the same as a 350 if the right adapter was used.

3. The input area on 1997 and earlier transmissions is setup for the Gen I / II engines. This means the torque converter is .400" farther away from the back of the block than the 1998 and later models. GMPP dealers sell a spacer for $37 and bolts $28 just for this application. In this situation you still use the factory flexplate for the engine. I'm using this in my most recent swap, 2000 5.3 with 1997 4L60E.

An easy spotting feature is all 1997 and newer cases have a removable bell housing, six bolt tail shaft housing and a 30 spline input shaft. All 1996 and earlier cases are one piece with a 4 bolt tail shaft.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:01 PM
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Can you run a 94, non pwm 4l60e with a vortec 411 pcm?
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gofastwclass View Post
From my research...
1. Any 1993 to 1997 4L60E is electronically the same but I read somewhere once the 1993's have a slightly different pinout. I was never able to verify the 1993 pinout thing so it may be BS.

2. A Turbo 350 shifter should actuate the transmission but you won't be able to select first gear. I haven't tried this but the actuator coming from the transmission looks the same as a 350 if the right adapter was used.

3. The input area on 1997 and earlier transmissions is setup for the Gen I / II engines. This means the torque converter is .400" farther away from the back of the block than the 1998 and later models. GMPP dealers sell a spacer for $37 and bolts $28 just for this application. In this situation you still use the factory flexplate for the engine. I'm using this in my most recent swap, 2000 5.3 with 1997 4L60E.

An easy spotting feature is all 1997 and newer cases have a removable bell housing, six bolt tail shaft housing and a 30 spline input shaft. All 1996 and earlier cases are one piece with a 4 bolt tail shaft.

Thanks for the quick reply, I'm going to purchase a 76 Camaro AOD kit which will convert my shifter to work with overdrive tranny's so this should fix my gear problem.

I contemplated getting a 700r4 and making that work with the 5.3, but rather than doing some modifications I think I may stick with the 97-later 4L60e.....that way all I need is a tailshaft adapter.

I want this as plug-in-play and to work as "factory" as possible.

Thanks again
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:56 PM
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I'm interested myself in the differences of the 4L60e's between the 1993 - 1997 and the 1998-2004.

1. Any electrical hardware differences that will prevent a 93-97 from plugging directly into a 2004 5.3 GMC Sierra Engine PCM?

2. Will the stock adjustment hardware for the shifter from a TH350 bolt directly to all years from 93-04?

3. Will the 93-97 4L60e bolt directly to the Gen III engine with no adapters or spacers?

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger for a 5.3 engine from an 04 GMC sierra and wanted to make sure when I buy the tranny I get the one with the least amount of work......I didn't want to buy an earlier version and find out that I need some "extra" parts to make it work with my engine.

Going in a 76 Camaro.......


Lastly is there a good source for a tailshaft housing conversion with the cable driven gear? I need to make the newer transmission work with my stock speedometer and still keep all the electronic stuff on the tranny for the PCM.
1) Starting in 94 and older 4L60Es had one less solenoid. The newer PCM can control them still

2) Yes but using a 3 spd shifter on a 4spd isnt recommended

3) It will colt up to the block fine, adapters/flexplate are needed to get the older converter to bolt up. Read the TH350 sticky, the same applies

Use the 5.3 2WD trans. The biggest diff between LS truck and Fbody is the lack of a torque arm mount in the tailhousing. Your 76 wont need the mount anyways

http://www.atrol.com/cablex.htm
3 wire hookup, speedo output from PCM, IGN and GRD. Not the cheapest, but less expensive than a conversion tailhousing

1993 to 1997 4L60E
93 Fbodys use the 4L60 which is the updated 700R4. In 94, they went electronic. Full sized trucks would be the only source for pre 94 4L60E's

Thanks for the quick reply, I'm going to purchase a 76 Camaro AOD kit which will convert my shifter to work with overdrive tranny's so this should fix my gear problem.

I contemplated getting a 700r4 and making that work with the 5.3, but rather than doing some modifications I think I may stick with the 97-later 4L60e.....that way all I need is a tailshaft adapter.
Why not get the correct shifter from the start?

You wont have to swap tailhousing unless you get a 4WD unit. Then alot of changes are needed

Can you run a 94, non pwm 4l60e with a vortec 411 pcm?
Yes, the 0411 PCM will support anything except the lockup on 700R4. For those, vacuum controlled solenoids are needed
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:38 PM
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94 prior did have one less solenoid as mentioned prior, however, I would not recommend using one in a 1995+ application. The 1994 and earlier had one lockup solenoid. These were ON/OFF lockup clutches. The 1995 added a PWM Lockup soleniod, that allows the clutch to have a ''constant slip'' The material used inside the torque converter is updated to handle the constant slip. The clutch is never 100% locked up 1:1. This is done to reduce vibrations transferred from the drive line, into the engine, and felt by the operator.

12 pins on 94<, 13 pins on 95+

Also, the 1995+ electronics will expect the additional solenoid. Codes CAN be disabled, but, I have no experience in what will actually happen when the PCM commands lockup. If anyone has done this and can chime in, I'd like to know.

Torque converter pilot (where it sticks in the end of the crankshaft) changed with the LSx series of motors, also changes to the input shaft. Early 4L60E has an o-ring at the very tip of the input shaft, later years, I think with the LSx 4l60E'S the tip of the input shaft is now splines. I THINK the o-ring is now on the inputshaft Past the first set of splines.

To use the early 4l60e behind the LS1, you will need an adaptor to support the converter pilot. Hughes performance sells just a sleeve the fits in the end of the crank. I have used this with good results. You will have to re-drill the torque converter pattern as the early is not the same as the later LSx 4l60e's.

Last edited by busta9876; 12-02-2009 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by busta9876 View Post
The 1995 added a PWM Lockup soleniod, that allows the clutch to have a ''constant slip''

Early 4L60E has an o-ring at the very tip of the input shaft, later years, I think with the LSx 4l60E'S the tip of the input shaft is now splines. I THINK the o-ring is now on the inputshaft Past the first set of splines.

You will have to re-drill the torque converter pattern as the early is not the same as the later LSx 4l60e's.
The newer transmissions will have PWM cast on the front pump. This one is a 1997 as evidenced by the separate bell housing and input shaft, 98+ have a different input.



I have heard of people reaming the original holes with a die grinder and making them slightly oblong with good success. I did this and carefully used the TC as a template. Quick, cheap and simple.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:48 AM
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1993 is it's own thing, 1994 is aswell, 1995 is different also, 1996-1997 are same, 1998-02 are the same, 03 up are different from the earlier versions.
A 1998-02 2wd Truck Trans will work with a F-body, all you have to do is swap the Linkage Arm and the Tail Shaft Housing if your Torque Arm still bolts to it.

Originally Posted by ponchoguy View Post
I am doing a swap from M6 F-body LS1 to change it over to A4... I am having a hard time finding a usable F-body core. Truck cores are all over and far cheaper.
Your best bet would be a 2wd 1998-02 Truck.
I have 2 of them cores myself..one a friend gave me when I did a M6 swap into his truck, and the other is my old Auto from my Camaro, it has all kinds of good hard parts in it(Beast Sunshell, Super Servo..etc..), the Clutches/Band are gone. I'm combining the two and building a badass pulling Tranny for my Truck. My Camaro one has a Corvette Valve Body..it

Last edited by the_merv; 12-03-2009 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:34 PM
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There also 2 different length bolt on bellsgs... About 9/16" diff.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:10 AM
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What about the 2002 and up 4.2 inline 6 engine?

Will a 4L60e from one of those bolt to the 5.3 V8 engine?

If it does are they the same internally or is the 4.2 4L60e going to be a weaker unit?
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:30 AM
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Different Bell Housing.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 1976CamaroGuy View Post
What about the 2002 and up 4.2 inline 6 engine?

Will a 4L60e from one of those bolt to the 5.3 V8 engine?

If it does are they the same internally or is the 4.2 4L60e going to be a weaker unit?
Internally they are the same. Identical # of clutch's in the packs, and same # of pinon gears on the planets as the 4L60E. Just change the bell housing.

I think the converter will bolt right up too. I know the bolt circle and the converter pilot diameter on the 4.2L are the same size as 5.3
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:21 AM
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Ok, I am going saturday morning to pick up a transmission for my project and have two to choose from:

1. 4L60e from a 2002 2wd Chevy V8 Pick-up truck 180,000 miles $300

2. 4L60e from a 1997 2wd Chevy Tahoe 98,000 miles $325

I didn't want to do any fabrication or modifying to make this fit my 2004 5.3 engine, are all the plugs the same?

If I did get the 1997 transmission what would I have to modify? Gofastwclass mentioned the 1997 units have a different input shaft than 1998 + anyone have pictures or show me what i would need to modify exactly?

Thanks for the help
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:25 AM
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Great information here guys.. thanks for all the good posts! I learned a lot!
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:34 AM
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Ok guys I found another seller that says he has two 4L60e transmissions I can buy, one is a 1997 and the other is a 1998.

The 1998 4L60e should be a direct bolt on and plug in, so this is the one I want to get. Is there a GM number on it or something?

Please tell me the noticeable differences between the two so I can keep from buying the wrong one. I don't want to take the sellers word and end up buying something that doesn't fit or will take some modifying to work.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:44 AM
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The 1997 looks like the old style for a 350..the 1998 is the new style..you will be able to tell.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:40 PM
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I'm in the same boat as 1976camaroguy, it seems like we're doing the same thing except i'm using a 78 firebird. There are many 4x4 trans for sale in my area, but only 1 2wd and the guy wants $1200 for it. Since I will have to get my driveshaft shortened anyways is it ok to use the 4wd tranny? I tried searching and using the tranny faq but couldn't find anything. I also posted a question in the tranny section but no one responded.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by battsup View Post
I'm in the same boat as 1976camaroguy, it seems like we're doing the same thing except i'm using a 78 firebird. There are many 4x4 trans for sale in my area, but only 1 2wd and the guy wants $1200 for it. Since I will have to get my driveshaft shortened anyways is it ok to use the 4wd tranny? I tried searching and using the tranny faq but couldn't find anything. I also posted a question in the tranny section but no one responded.
The 4WD version is a completely different animal. There is no tail housing and the output shaft is shorter so it won't work with a 2WD tail housing. To use a 4WD trans in a 2WD application requires a complete tear down to replace the output shaft to the 2WD unit. Then a tail shaft has to be installed, etc, etc. I'm sorry but for $1200 I would seriously think about checking one of the vendors on the site - I know one has a low end 4L60E that isn't much more than that and is all fresh.

Originally Posted by 1976CamaroGuy View Post
I didn't want to do any fabrication or modifying to make this fit my 2004 5.3 engine, are all the plugs the same?

If I did get the 1997 transmission what would I have to modify? Gofastwclass mentioned the 1997 units have a different input shaft than 1998 + anyone have pictures or show me what i would need to modify exactly?

Thanks for the help
There is no wiring change to worry about. I am using a 1997 transmission and the only thing you need is an adapter from GMPP and the requisite bolts. The whole thing should be around $37 for the adapter and $28 for the 6 bolts. The biggest problem I had was the transmission fill tube, but I always use Lokar transmission tubes since they are only $80.
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