Fox Mustang, LS1/T56, Max Motorsports, IRS, engine relo, custom headers, etc
05-26-2014, 09:47 PM
#41
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Thanks. It's not a drag car, and the Cobra IRS handles awesome with the correct parts. Also, IRS is cheaper than the typical road race or autocross straight axle suspension because few people believe what I said to be true. 
A $600 2003/2004 Cobra IRS has differential and half shafts which will easily handle 500 rwhp in stock form, and with simple bushing upgrades to delrin and a hardtail mount, the IRS as a whole will perform better than I can drive the car.
A $600 2003/2004 Cobra IRS has differential and half shafts which will easily handle 500 rwhp in stock form, and with simple bushing upgrades to delrin and a hardtail mount, the IRS as a whole will perform better than I can drive the car.
05-27-2014, 08:15 AM
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looking good man! pretty trick shifter. making/modifying/designing your own parts is probably the best part of working on cars, atleast for me. I love just going to town on the mill/lathe.
05-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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I'm leveraging all these savings to roll them into a lathe purchase sometime in the future.
05-27-2014, 01:16 PM
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Thanks! I enjoy fabbing stuff also. The Bridgeport has been a big help with the build, and also I just use it for alot of stuff around the house too. Every time I save money with it I make sure to tell my wife exactly how much so she understands it's not just "another toy to waste money on". I'm leveraging all these savings to roll them into a lathe purchase sometime in the future.
I'm leveraging all these savings to roll them into a lathe purchase sometime in the future. 
06-26-2014, 10:35 AM
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So between life and kids and everything else, I'm putting my custom headers on hold in an effort to expedite the project. I'm going to finish the headers but probably not until next summer. I've spent way too much time on the headers at this point and I need to make some large obvious progress.
I picked up a pair of ZL1 manifolds (same as 2010 Camaro manifolds but stainless steel) locally and they fit nearly perfect. I'm going to adapt them and hopefully get the car on the road before August. I need to inspect and register it in August and that gives me a good timeline to work towards.
I picked up a pair of ZL1 manifolds (same as 2010 Camaro manifolds but stainless steel) locally and they fit nearly perfect. I'm going to adapt them and hopefully get the car on the road before August. I need to inspect and register it in August and that gives me a good timeline to work towards.
07-17-2014, 07:50 AM
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Working but no pics lately. Picked up a Bassani stainless steel x pipe and cat back off Corral from an 03 Cobra as well as the down pipes and flanges from a 2010 Camaro. Adapting them together to fit. I need to start updating this thread again.
07-18-2014, 01:39 AM
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One of the many times I have had the engine in the chassis, I bolted the shifter base to the T56 to see how the shifter would work and if I could get everything to fit. At first I planned to just weld on a steel bar and offset the handle forwards, but after doing that and seeing how it shifted, I hated the shifter. The shifter had throws which were about 10-11 inches forwards and back. Also, because of the long forward offset, the **** climbed several inches while pulling the shifter back, and dropped several inches while pushing the shifter forwards.
After realizing I hated the shifter I decided to design and build something better. I used Solidworks (I have my own license because I moonlight and do part time contract mechanical design) and reverse engineered the OEM shifter and modified it to work better for my application.
What I wanted was:
1) Throws that were about 4 inches longitudinally
2) Positive stops
3) No **** climb or drop when shifting
4) Optimal **** placement, or at least placement which was as good as the original T5 location
I figured I would need a mechanism that works alot like the GTO shifters, but moved the shifter handle forwards rather than backwards. What I came up with is this. There is about a 1.8:1 longitudinal motion ratio between the shifter base and the shifter handle. IE the shifter handle moves 10 degrees and the shifter base moves 18 degrees. The lateral motion ratio is still 1:1.
The motion mechanism is basically a spherical rod end which is mounted on a 3/8" bolt which is welded into a bracket which is welded to the OEM shifter base. The rod end is about 4.5" forward of the OEM shifter ball. There are positive stops built into the top C plate and that top C plate allows the spherical rod end to come out should it ever need to be replaced.
After realizing I hated the shifter I decided to design and build something better. I used Solidworks (I have my own license because I moonlight and do part time contract mechanical design) and reverse engineered the OEM shifter and modified it to work better for my application.
What I wanted was:
1) Throws that were about 4 inches longitudinally
2) Positive stops
3) No **** climb or drop when shifting
4) Optimal **** placement, or at least placement which was as good as the original T5 location
I figured I would need a mechanism that works alot like the GTO shifters, but moved the shifter handle forwards rather than backwards. What I came up with is this. There is about a 1.8:1 longitudinal motion ratio between the shifter base and the shifter handle. IE the shifter handle moves 10 degrees and the shifter base moves 18 degrees. The lateral motion ratio is still 1:1.
The motion mechanism is basically a spherical rod end which is mounted on a 3/8" bolt which is welded into a bracket which is welded to the OEM shifter base. The rod end is about 4.5" forward of the OEM shifter ball. There are positive stops built into the top C plate and that top C plate allows the spherical rod end to come out should it ever need to be replaced.
07-21-2014, 03:50 PM
#49
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Anyway, I could modify a shifter, but I don't send out CAD data anymore. I got burned on that in the late 90s when the mod motor Mustangs came out. I spent alot of time reverse engineering the DOHC Cobra engine and I was dumb enough to give out free info, and then people were building and selling the work I had produced. For that reason I don't send out design data anymore, sorry.
Here is an exact copy of a PM I sent to another member in Dec 2013. Note the billing rate I quoted is $25/hr, which is much less than my normal billing rate of $80/hr. I mention this not to sound like a pompous jerk, but because lots of people will read this and think the number is high. Billing less than $25/hr for a hobby related venture is not really attractive to me because I can consume 100% of my free time doing 1099 or corp to corp for $80/hr (but I would rather spend time with my family, so I don't spend all my free time working regardless of the pay rate).
Anyway, if you are truly interested you could PM and we could discuss. Thanks.
Originally Posted by usdmholden from PM Dec 2013
Hey, I would be willing to make another one but honestly, it took so much time to make the first one I'm not sure you would be willing to pay that much for a second one, even if the second one only took half the time.
The one I made I have between 20 and 25 hours in fabrication time, not including any design time which was probably another 20 hours. However, during the fabrication I was working slow and checking and re-checking at every stage of fabrication to make sure it would all go together and I wasn't going to scrap it.
Now that I've got it figured out, I can probably make another exactly like mine in about 16 hours, assuming you wanted the positive stops on the shifter handle. A lot of the time is in the positive stops and the cutting of parts in the milling machine and setup of the positive stop parts on the shifter base and bracket. If you only wanted the shifter handle offset exactly the way I did it on mine and no positive stops, then I could probably do it in 8-10 hours. This still seems like a lot of labor cost to me.
I spent some time thinking about how to cost reduce the mechanism and if you wanted a bare bones relocation of the shifter I bet I could do it in 5 hours, but it would not be fancy looking, it would only be functional. I would not cut the bracket shapes in the milling machine, I would cut them with plasma and/or a sawsall. This would limit times to about 2.5-3 hours in the milling machine and 1.5-2 hours of fabrication time. I believe my time estimates are reasonable. The only features which would be cut in the milling machine would be:
1) hole locations to fixture the bracket relative to the shifter base
2) location of the shifter handle axis hole in the bracket relative to the base fixture holes
3) milling of the shifter handle base to the correct thickness for the mechanism
4) milling of the hole location in the shifter handle base
5) milling the holes in the two bars which span the shifter handle to the shifter base to ensure they are the same center to center distance
For an EXACT copy of what I made, it would probably be about $400 worth of my labor (16 hours) for the version with positive stops in EXACTLY the way I made mine. However, given what I learned, I would not make mine the same way a second time, it just took too long.
A bare bones cost reduced version, where I only relocated the handle (no positive stops) and made a more simple bracket to do the relocation, would be about 5 hours, and $125 for labor without the positive stops. Plus the cost of the components from McMaster Carr, which would only be about $25-$30 including the shipping. Materials in the form of angle steel and steel or aluminum bar stock would be another $15-$20 (but I would have to check on the material prices). I made my bracket and bars from scraps lying around, and I don't think I have enough left to make another, so I would have to buy some. If I have enough I can use them and I would only charge for material based on what I used.
I did originally make a bar to offset the shifter handle forward about 4 inches, and it did require cutting the bottom of the console plastics a little. Honestly, the new design required a little more cutting than the bar extension, but it's all in a place which is not visible once the console and covers are installed. If you were worried about strength of the cut plastic, as I am, you could just screw some aluminum or steel sheet metal behind the cut plastic areas to strengthen the plastic span which gets cut. I am doing this, I just don't have any updates or pictures for the build thread yet.
Also, there is still some slop in the new design. The slop comes from the OEM shifter base, it is just a sloppy design. The new design has good throws and the placement feels nice, but the handle on the spherical rod end can easily move side to side 5-10 degrees while the transmission is in gear. That won't be fixed without an aftermarket shifter base. I'm a little leary of making something for an aftermarket shifter base until I try this one in the car after the car is driving. My car isn't driving yet.
Also, I'm booked until the end of Feb, so if you did want to consider doing this, I can't even start until the end of Feb and I could get you the part in about 1-2 weeks after I began. I have two kids and only work on the car a few nights a week for 2-3 hours at a time, and some of the lead time I quoted is for McMaster shipping. You would have to supply the shifter base and the offset distance you wanted relative to the OEM shifter, I would order the rest of the parts and send you the receipt from McMaster Carr, as well as any leftover, unused hardware.
The one I made I have between 20 and 25 hours in fabrication time, not including any design time which was probably another 20 hours. However, during the fabrication I was working slow and checking and re-checking at every stage of fabrication to make sure it would all go together and I wasn't going to scrap it.
Now that I've got it figured out, I can probably make another exactly like mine in about 16 hours, assuming you wanted the positive stops on the shifter handle. A lot of the time is in the positive stops and the cutting of parts in the milling machine and setup of the positive stop parts on the shifter base and bracket. If you only wanted the shifter handle offset exactly the way I did it on mine and no positive stops, then I could probably do it in 8-10 hours. This still seems like a lot of labor cost to me.
I spent some time thinking about how to cost reduce the mechanism and if you wanted a bare bones relocation of the shifter I bet I could do it in 5 hours, but it would not be fancy looking, it would only be functional. I would not cut the bracket shapes in the milling machine, I would cut them with plasma and/or a sawsall. This would limit times to about 2.5-3 hours in the milling machine and 1.5-2 hours of fabrication time. I believe my time estimates are reasonable. The only features which would be cut in the milling machine would be:
1) hole locations to fixture the bracket relative to the shifter base
2) location of the shifter handle axis hole in the bracket relative to the base fixture holes
3) milling of the shifter handle base to the correct thickness for the mechanism
4) milling of the hole location in the shifter handle base
5) milling the holes in the two bars which span the shifter handle to the shifter base to ensure they are the same center to center distance
For an EXACT copy of what I made, it would probably be about $400 worth of my labor (16 hours) for the version with positive stops in EXACTLY the way I made mine. However, given what I learned, I would not make mine the same way a second time, it just took too long.
A bare bones cost reduced version, where I only relocated the handle (no positive stops) and made a more simple bracket to do the relocation, would be about 5 hours, and $125 for labor without the positive stops. Plus the cost of the components from McMaster Carr, which would only be about $25-$30 including the shipping. Materials in the form of angle steel and steel or aluminum bar stock would be another $15-$20 (but I would have to check on the material prices). I made my bracket and bars from scraps lying around, and I don't think I have enough left to make another, so I would have to buy some. If I have enough I can use them and I would only charge for material based on what I used.
I did originally make a bar to offset the shifter handle forward about 4 inches, and it did require cutting the bottom of the console plastics a little. Honestly, the new design required a little more cutting than the bar extension, but it's all in a place which is not visible once the console and covers are installed. If you were worried about strength of the cut plastic, as I am, you could just screw some aluminum or steel sheet metal behind the cut plastic areas to strengthen the plastic span which gets cut. I am doing this, I just don't have any updates or pictures for the build thread yet.
Also, there is still some slop in the new design. The slop comes from the OEM shifter base, it is just a sloppy design. The new design has good throws and the placement feels nice, but the handle on the spherical rod end can easily move side to side 5-10 degrees while the transmission is in gear. That won't be fixed without an aftermarket shifter base. I'm a little leary of making something for an aftermarket shifter base until I try this one in the car after the car is driving. My car isn't driving yet.
Also, I'm booked until the end of Feb, so if you did want to consider doing this, I can't even start until the end of Feb and I could get you the part in about 1-2 weeks after I began. I have two kids and only work on the car a few nights a week for 2-3 hours at a time, and some of the lead time I quoted is for McMaster shipping. You would have to supply the shifter base and the offset distance you wanted relative to the OEM shifter, I would order the rest of the parts and send you the receipt from McMaster Carr, as well as any leftover, unused hardware.
07-21-2014, 05:39 PM
#50
U I'am at least one of the ones that talked to you about sending you a Pro 5.0 shifter. But shortly after that I found a Ford T56 Magnum with the shifter right where I need it and I'll be using a cable operated clutch. Just ordered a custom bellhousing from QuickTime to bolt the Ford transmission to the LS engine.
Hey, I have had several other people contact me about building a shifter, and one fellow who wanted a kit for an aftermarket shifter. I pretty much dropped the ball on the aftermarket shifter request because I spent a month in Asia at the beginning of the year, and after getting back my boss got fired so I have been spending alot more time at work. The time I have been home I have spent more with the family and have been working on the car less.
Anyway, I could modify a shifter, but I don't send out CAD data anymore. I got burned on that in the late 90s when the mod motor Mustangs came out. I spent alot of time reverse engineering the DOHC Cobra engine and I was dumb enough to give out free info, and then people were building and selling the work I had produced. For that reason I don't send out design data anymore, sorry.
Here is an exact copy of a PM I sent to another member in Dec 2013. Note the billing rate I quoted is $25/hr, which is much less than my normal billing rate of $80/hr. I mention this not to sound like a pompous jerk, but because lots of people will read this and think the number is high. Billing less than $25/hr for a hobby related venture is not really attractive to me because I can consume 100% of my free time doing 1099 or corp to corp for $80/hr (but I would rather spend time with my family, so I don't spend all my free time working regardless of the pay rate).
Anyway, if you are truly interested you could PM and we could discuss. Thanks.
Anyway, I could modify a shifter, but I don't send out CAD data anymore. I got burned on that in the late 90s when the mod motor Mustangs came out. I spent alot of time reverse engineering the DOHC Cobra engine and I was dumb enough to give out free info, and then people were building and selling the work I had produced. For that reason I don't send out design data anymore, sorry.
Here is an exact copy of a PM I sent to another member in Dec 2013. Note the billing rate I quoted is $25/hr, which is much less than my normal billing rate of $80/hr. I mention this not to sound like a pompous jerk, but because lots of people will read this and think the number is high. Billing less than $25/hr for a hobby related venture is not really attractive to me because I can consume 100% of my free time doing 1099 or corp to corp for $80/hr (but I would rather spend time with my family, so I don't spend all my free time working regardless of the pay rate).
Anyway, if you are truly interested you could PM and we could discuss. Thanks.
07-22-2014, 08:33 AM
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I'am at least one of the ones that talked to you about sending you a Pro 5.0 shifter. But shortly after that I found a Ford T56 Magnum with the shifter right where I need it and I'll be using a cable operated clutch. Just ordered a custom bellhousing from QuickTime to bolt the Ford transmission to the LS engine.
Not a problem with me, I've had alot to do since March.
07-29-2014, 09:34 AM
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Interesting note that I learned last week. A local guy came over with 5.0 fox and I took some measurements.
The LS in my Mustang is set back in the chassis 3.75" from the Fox 5.0 location. This was with the MM 4.6L k member and the motor mounts which I built to set the engine back about .660" relative to the location where the engine would have been mounted had I not built the motor mounts. I guess this means that as installed, an LS engine on a Maximum Motorsports mod motor k member sets back in the chassis about 3" behind where a stock 5.0 would sit.
The LS in my Mustang is set back in the chassis 3.75" from the Fox 5.0 location. This was with the MM 4.6L k member and the motor mounts which I built to set the engine back about .660" relative to the location where the engine would have been mounted had I not built the motor mounts. I guess this means that as installed, an LS engine on a Maximum Motorsports mod motor k member sets back in the chassis about 3" behind where a stock 5.0 would sit.
Last edited by usdmholden; 07-29-2014 at 01:56 PM.
07-29-2014, 01:33 PM
#54
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Put the engine in with the 2010 Camaro manifolds. The steering shaft fits perfect with the engine where it is. The Max Motorsports k member sets the engine off to the passenger side in the same way which the OEM k member does, and this requires about a 30 degree bend in the passenger side downpipe. Not really a problem, the mod motor x/h pipes do this anyway from the factory. If you used a k member with the engine centered then you may be able to get away with a straight tube, but I'm only guessing since I have not tried it.
Note the pics from below are both of the drivers side manifold. I guess I forgot to take a pic of the passenger side.
Note the pics from below are both of the drivers side manifold. I guess I forgot to take a pic of the passenger side.
07-29-2014, 01:38 PM
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Milled the spindles for the 5/8" bolt required for the bumpsteer kit and installed the Koni SAs and coil overs. Springs are 10" long 300 lb/in for a 99% street car. Also picked up a cheap set of 1999 Cobra wheels. Everything fits nicely so far when mocked up.
07-29-2014, 01:44 PM
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Did this part a couple months ago, I just never took pictures.
Brazed some AN fittings to the end of the stock fuel pump assembly feed and return lines. Replaced the gas tank fuel pump o-ring and the filler neck seal. Bought some PTFE lines and adapters for the Corvette filter / regulator. Installed a 255 LPH intank pump. Fuel system is 99% done. I'm only waiting to put it back in the chassis until after I get the subframe connectors and IRS installed.
Pressure tested all the lines and fittings to 150 psi and there were no leaks so I believe I'm good to go here.
Brazed some AN fittings to the end of the stock fuel pump assembly feed and return lines. Replaced the gas tank fuel pump o-ring and the filler neck seal. Bought some PTFE lines and adapters for the Corvette filter / regulator. Installed a 255 LPH intank pump. Fuel system is 99% done. I'm only waiting to put it back in the chassis until after I get the subframe connectors and IRS installed.
Pressure tested all the lines and fittings to 150 psi and there were no leaks so I believe I'm good to go here.
07-29-2014, 01:54 PM
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There have been several people posting that the 2010 Camaro manifolds don't fit their fox body / SN95 builds, and several posting that they fit perfect.
If you are using a 4.6L k member and the 4.6L motor mount adapter plates and 4.6L motor mounts, I suspect that the 2010 Camaro manifolds will not fit without moving the steering column over a bit, and even then that may not be enough.
The 4.6L k member and motor mounts put the LS engine high in the engine bay, and that will make the flange hit the steering shaft. Even with the engine offset to the passenger side as it is in my car, if it were up an inch or so it would have hit. Note the engine in my car is down nearly two inches, if I had left it where it would have been before I built the drop motor mounts, I think the flange would have hit the steering shaft..
Alternatively, if you have a swap system which centers the engine and sets it low, you may still have some clearance issues without pulling the steering column and shaft over.
Again, you all will have to try it because I don't have those parts for experimentation.
If you are using a 4.6L k member and the 4.6L motor mount adapter plates and 4.6L motor mounts, I suspect that the 2010 Camaro manifolds will not fit without moving the steering column over a bit, and even then that may not be enough.
The 4.6L k member and motor mounts put the LS engine high in the engine bay, and that will make the flange hit the steering shaft. Even with the engine offset to the passenger side as it is in my car, if it were up an inch or so it would have hit. Note the engine in my car is down nearly two inches, if I had left it where it would have been before I built the drop motor mounts, I think the flange would have hit the steering shaft..
Alternatively, if you have a swap system which centers the engine and sets it low, you may still have some clearance issues without pulling the steering column and shaft over.
Again, you all will have to try it because I don't have those parts for experimentation.
07-30-2014, 08:33 AM
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Passenger side 2010 Camaro manifold pics from the bottom taken when I was welding in subframe connectors last night. I guess technically my manifolds came off a 2013 ZL1 and are cast stainless steel, but otherwise, they are identical to the gen5 Camaro Manifolds, so whatever.
There is lots of clearance but the flange needs about a 30 deg bend to clear the k member. A 2.5" tube fits fine between the starter and the k member and there is enough room for the starter to come out and also I believe I can get a straight extension and socket on a nut if I decided to bolt the exhaust to the manifolds with a nut under the down pipe flange instead of how the gen5 camaro manifolds do it OEM with the nut above the manifold.
There is lots of clearance but the flange needs about a 30 deg bend to clear the k member. A 2.5" tube fits fine between the starter and the k member and there is enough room for the starter to come out and also I believe I can get a straight extension and socket on a nut if I decided to bolt the exhaust to the manifolds with a nut under the down pipe flange instead of how the gen5 camaro manifolds do it OEM with the nut above the manifold.
07-30-2014, 08:50 AM
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Welding in subframe connectors. Some of the welds are ugly but functional. Lots of gaps in the OEM subframes because of small dents from putting the jack underneath.
