What's the value of a 69 LS1 / T56 Camaro
05-16-2017, 01:31 PM
#21
But the important take away from this whole conversation is there is a lot of disagreement about what a hot rod is worth, a fact insurance companies will use to their advantage should you ever actually make a claim.
Classic car insurance, agreed or stated value, is a poor investment.
Classic car insurance, agreed or stated value, is a poor investment.
05-16-2017, 10:44 PM
#22
from a cost stand point, this kind of insurance really doesn't cost any more than full coverage insurance on an equally valued car you would daily drive.
05-17-2017, 05:25 AM
#23
Unfortunately I've had too many bad experiences with insurance companies to naively think they have my best interest in mind or will act with any kind of honor. If they can find an out they will take it.
Read through this thread. A bunch of car guys can't come close to agreeing what a car is worth. Throw in a bunch of insurance guys/lawyers/judges and do you honestly think the picture gets any clearer?
Take the money you save and buy stocks. You will be dollars ahead. Pretty easy math.
05-17-2017, 05:35 AM
#24
Regardless, people here (and p-t, lat g, etc) are going to disagree with the chevelles.com, team camaro, etc guys, and that's fine, but it sucks when the insurance company says my car is worth $5k when I have 10 times that in it. Hard to get a decent agreed value when the guy coming to appraise is either generally dealing with 86 accords or stock-ish classics. Can't somebody come up with a flat rate term life sort of insurance for cars?
05-17-2017, 06:41 AM
#25
My insurance so far has been great to deal with. Honor a certified appraisers value assigned as long as they vet them first. As for wasting money on insurance I'm sure mine is cheaper than most. And stipulations on driving are minimal.
I don't look at my car as an investment and think most probably don't. Can't you make money building them? Sure but the money to be made is in the labor part of the build and how much is your time worth.
I wouldn't get my cash out of the car but don't plan to ever sell so not worried about that :-)
I don't look at my car as an investment and think most probably don't. Can't you make money building them? Sure but the money to be made is in the labor part of the build and how much is your time worth.
I wouldn't get my cash out of the car but don't plan to ever sell so not worried about that :-)
05-17-2017, 07:05 AM
#26
The whole point of stated value insurance is that you and the insurance company agree up front on the "value" of the car. However, you can't buy that kind of insurance for a car that's your daily driver -- there are restrictions on how the car can be used. Almost all the problems occur when folks (usually younger, less experience) dump a TON of money into their daily, have it covered with traditional insurance, never inform the insurance company about the changes to the car/have it professionally appraised -- and then expect to recoup all of their "investment" when the car gets totaled. Or, the damage is caused by an incident that's expressly prohibited in the policy ("contest of speed"), and they expect they will be covered. Fact is, hardly anyone actually reads their insurance policy where each party's commitments are set forth.
On the other hand, you have 69 Camaros like this -- where the owner likely spent $1/2 million building it. https://ringbrothers.com/1969_camaro_razor It might sell a year later at Barrett-Jackson for $300k -- to which someone will claim 'yeah, but there's a $300,000 69 Camaro with LS power'. But the owner took a beating on it.
On the other hand, you have 69 Camaros like this -- where the owner likely spent $1/2 million building it. https://ringbrothers.com/1969_camaro_razor It might sell a year later at Barrett-Jackson for $300k -- to which someone will claim 'yeah, but there's a $300,000 69 Camaro with LS power'. But the owner took a beating on it.
05-17-2017, 07:58 AM
#27
I agree with that. Mine is insured for about what I have into it minus labor.
I read all the terms and some aren't great but my concerns were covered with total loss compensation. I would get 75% of m my investment (as mentioned above, minus labor) and I'm pretty happy with that.
Plus I pay 900/yr and have minimal restrictions on use aside from can't be my daily or considered the backup transportation. Etc. but with 6,000/yr mileage, that leaves some room for enjoyment.
I read all the terms and some aren't great but my concerns were covered with total loss compensation. I would get 75% of m my investment (as mentioned above, minus labor) and I'm pretty happy with that.
Plus I pay 900/yr and have minimal restrictions on use aside from can't be my daily or considered the backup transportation. Etc. but with 6,000/yr mileage, that leaves some room for enjoyment.
05-17-2017, 08:10 AM
#28
If you don't mind answering -- who is your coverage with and what amount? The annual payment is quite a bit more than my Hagerty coverage --- guessing you have more coverage. Similarly - mine can't be daily or back up. No specific mileage limitation. Lots of pictures required, required to be garaged/locked up when not in use.
05-17-2017, 08:29 AM
#31
My hagerty quote was nearly $3k and Grundy was just over $2k. With less miles allowed and few more restrictions it seemed. Rally made it easy on me. And came recommended by a few friends.
Good insurance is something you hope you never have to use.
Good insurance is something you hope you never have to use.
05-17-2017, 10:31 AM
#34
I completely disagree with this statement. Agreed value is by far the best way to protect your investment. If you have an agreed value in the contract you will get your value without any arguments about comparison values. Besides it's barely any more cost then any normal daily driver insurance. My classic car insurance is under $250 for the year and has an agreed value set in place.
05-17-2017, 11:06 AM
#35
In a sense, PopnWood is right - no one should view insurance as an investment. It's a hedge against a potential loss. Each person decides if they want to hedge or not. The determination of whether it's a good VALUE or not is a subjective one....the decision someone else makes doesn't matter.
Last edited by Michael Yount; 05-17-2017 at 11:53 AM.
05-17-2017, 01:38 PM
#36
In a sense, PopnWood is right - no one should view insurance as an investment. It's a hedge against a potential loss. Each person decides if they want to hedge or not. The determination of whether it's a good VALUE or not is a subjective one....the decision someone else makes doesn't matter.
05-17-2017, 02:02 PM
#37
just be sure there's no "stated value" terms mixed in with the "agreed value" policy. hagerty tried that crap with me. also ridiculous restrictions on use...like I cant either truck as my daily if my main daily is down for repair. eff that.
i went with safeco. they do all three of my cars for like $135/mo. agreed value is ~5k on all three. not enough to break even, but I'll have a good start on building something else. maxed PIP and uninsured/underinsured motorist. wife is covered too even though she doesnt drive---in case someone runs her over on her bicycle. roadside towing for 100miles *crosses fingers knocks on wood*
my *** is in the breeze if any of them get wrecked at the track tho. just part it out and start over :/
i went with safeco. they do all three of my cars for like $135/mo. agreed value is ~5k on all three. not enough to break even, but I'll have a good start on building something else. maxed PIP and uninsured/underinsured motorist. wife is covered too even though she doesnt drive---in case someone runs her over on her bicycle. roadside towing for 100miles *crosses fingers knocks on wood*
my *** is in the breeze if any of them get wrecked at the track tho. just part it out and start over :/
05-17-2017, 02:54 PM
#38
I completely disagree with this statement. Agreed value is by far the best way to protect your investment. If you have an agreed value in the contract you will get your value without any arguments about comparison values. Besides it's barely any more cost then any normal daily driver insurance. My classic car insurance is under $250 for the year and has an agreed value set in place.
Seems like people who are most happy with their insurance companies have never done anything but mail them checks. Try getting them to mail you one.
Even if the company is honest and lives up to their agreement, car insurance is still a poor investment. It is an odds game. Insurance companies know this. They have the data, know how to do the math and that is how they know they are going to make money. No different than betting black at the casino.
In all honesty if it were legal I wouldn't carry insurance on my daily, but admittedly that is me and fits my situation. It is too hard to say what something is worth, too easy to pass blame, too easy to delay things in court and insurance people are too money focused. What you put into it means nothing. The high end collector car prices goes through cycles no different than the stock market or real estate market. Most of those guys are investor speculating on rising prices in good times. Just because a specific model of car was selling for $100k last year doesn't mean they won't go for half of that a year later. None of that works in our favor.
****, at one point my wife was convinced her beanie baby collection was going to put our kids through college. Luckily the money I saved on car insurance and diverted to a 529 plan did.
Anybody want to buy a couple of trash bags of beanie babies?
05-17-2017, 03:14 PM
#40
A 69 Camaro with an LS1 isn't worth a whole lot. The value would be about on-par to an equivalent condition car with a 'less desirable' engine. The LS1 would obviously be worth a little more than say a vanilla carbed 350, but maybe just by a couple grand.
The only reason why you see some Z28s and SS Camaros selling for big $$$ is because they are documented cars with #'s matching motors. In other words, originality is they key to their high value. Collectors with deep pockets are the cause of those 'inflated' prices. Those aren't being purchased by the average Joe to drive on cruise night. On the flipside, collectors would have nothing to do with an LS1 69 Camaro so without that demand the value will suffer. Average Joe is the guy that would buy such a Camaro, and he's not made of money.
You can't look at your car and what it cost you to customize, add in labor costs and figure that's the value. It just doesn't work that way.
Think about it like this: Take a $500 beater early-90s Ford Escort and spend $2,000 for a nice paint job. Will that make the value $2,500 or more? No. It'll look pretty nice and I'm sure it would be worth more than the original $500 and be easier to sell... but the paint job isn't going to make that big a difference.
Hot Rods are horrible investments. Unless your name is Boyd Coddington you're going lose money in the deal. Check out Hemmings and you'll see page after page of people who put 20K into a car restoring and customizing it and are hoping to get 10k in return. Hot Rodding is a labor of love.
So what would the value be? Whatever you have invested in the car dollar wise, figure it's worth less than that unless you got some killer deals on parts. For the typical restore job, I'd say the value range is anywhere from half to 80% of what was spent. Sad but true.
The only reason why you see some Z28s and SS Camaros selling for big $$$ is because they are documented cars with #'s matching motors. In other words, originality is they key to their high value. Collectors with deep pockets are the cause of those 'inflated' prices. Those aren't being purchased by the average Joe to drive on cruise night. On the flipside, collectors would have nothing to do with an LS1 69 Camaro so without that demand the value will suffer. Average Joe is the guy that would buy such a Camaro, and he's not made of money.
You can't look at your car and what it cost you to customize, add in labor costs and figure that's the value. It just doesn't work that way.
Think about it like this: Take a $500 beater early-90s Ford Escort and spend $2,000 for a nice paint job. Will that make the value $2,500 or more? No. It'll look pretty nice and I'm sure it would be worth more than the original $500 and be easier to sell... but the paint job isn't going to make that big a difference.
Hot Rods are horrible investments. Unless your name is Boyd Coddington you're going lose money in the deal. Check out Hemmings and you'll see page after page of people who put 20K into a car restoring and customizing it and are hoping to get 10k in return. Hot Rodding is a labor of love.
So what would the value be? Whatever you have invested in the car dollar wise, figure it's worth less than that unless you got some killer deals on parts. For the typical restore job, I'd say the value range is anywhere from half to 80% of what was spent. Sad but true.
I'd say a pretty nice one would go for 20K-ish