Betsy, The '57 210 Belair Wagon LS376/480 - Page 8 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

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Betsy, The '57 210 Belair Wagon LS376/480

 
Old 11-29-2018, 05:31 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by themealonwheels View Post
In reviewing ls1tech for relevant threads, I keep seeing dominator when I enter terminator. Also, I see that the dominator is as good as the tuner. I was under the impression the terminator is a self tuning system. Am I missing something, or are these different systems like I was led to believe?
The Terminator brand just means they are complete kits. Some Terminator kits use the HP ECU while other kits use the Dominator ECU. Holley only make two ECU: the HP and the Dominator. The software is all the same, but the Dominator has more features, like DBW, auto trans, dual wide band option, etc...

So if you are looking at a Terminator kit with DBW and auto trans control then it will have the Dominator ECU. The terminator kits also come with the 3.5" LCD panel and technically don't need a laptop, but more advanced features are only available through the laptop software.

As for being "self tuning" this is true as far as the base fuel table is concerned. However, you still need to tune the spark table, intelligently assign target AFR numbers, tune idle, AE enrichment, shift points, etc...etc...etc...With great control comes greater responsibility...LOL

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Old 11-29-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TomM View Post
Sent you a PM. Think I can shed some insight into your problem. Your OS and TB are mismatched for one, which is why you are getting weird TPS readings.....

T,
Take Tom's advice. If you can fix your issues, there is no need to change everything. Learning to tune on the Holley is a pretty steep learning curve, although not as big of one as a stock ECU.

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Old 11-29-2018, 07:04 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, andrew. I read the directions this afternoon and understand what you mean about what parts are self correcting and which aren't. Given that Spark isn't adjusted, I might as well stick with gm stuff... hell, to an extent, a gm pcm already does what holleys pcm does.

Tom offered some advice on who to contact next, a name from my past, Bill at bp. I'll give him a call tomorrow. I put the matches and gasoline down for the evening, gonna pick up the whiskey instead.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:21 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by TomM View Post
Sent you a PM. Think I can shed some insight into your problem. Your OS and TB are mismatched for one, which is why you are getting weird TPS readings.....

T,
We did the initial tune on the ecm/tcm. The OS we put in the ecm is 12617631, that is a very common OS with LS3 swaps. Probably 95% or more LS3 swaps we have tuned with E38's used that OS. If the gas pedal isnt correct or isnt pinned correct it will make the TPS act all weird also, we have seen that several times in the past. We usually tune several swaps a week, did 2 last week with that OS and LS3's but that doesnt mean we dont make mistakes either, because we do. Its hard to troubleshoot something over the internet or through mail order and at the time the OP didnt want to license the ecm so we refunded the OP his money on the tune vs keep mailing the ecm back and forth when we couldnt rule out it there wasnt another issue going on.
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this and the OP can get it going. Its either wiring or in the tune, just no way to say which one 100% without more troubleshooting. Its a really awesome looking project and hopefully we see a post very soon saying its running.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:09 PM
  #145  
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Over Thanksgiving week, I did long tube headers on my SS. In the process, I stole the Lokar flexible oil dip tube and dip stick. I ordered a replacement for the 57 and took a day this weekend to use this as an opportunity to reacquaint myself with the car. Nothing towards getting it to run, but I ran at it like a bull in a china shop: one by one, if it was on my list, I was getting it done until time ran out. So, I installed the new dip tube and dip stick, wired 3 billet LED switches (1 for dome light override, 2 momentary switches for the Dakota Digital cluster), installed the lower part of the rear seat, and took some trim off for powder coat. Might not sound like a lot, but the switches really just had me exhausted: wiring soldered to the pins wasn't originally long enough to comfortably work under the dash. The back seat had me exhausted, the fabricated board was about 3/4" too wide and the pivot points sit between two serious, 1957 steel brackets that were powder coated. Saturday, I wasn't having any of that sh**. Cutoff wheels, pliers, solder, taps, everything was fair game. I ended the day when I ran out of time as I was pulling more trim off for powder coating.



Really not as organized as I normally approach the car, but I was tired of some of these things just looming.

I'm waiting for a PCM from BPAutomotive, going to give the PSI harness one last shot before going Tasmanian devil on this thing. Next items on the list will be upper ball joints (currently non-greasable, which has led to boots tearing before the first miles lol) and steering ends (same, non-greasable, torn), installing window sweeps inside and outside and upholster the rear speaker stuff and cards over the rear wheels. Eventually, new PCM, try to start again.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:01 AM
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Look what showed up yesterday! VFN smoothie bolt-on hood... no pitted hood rockets for me! The hood bar needs powder coat before I install it, and I need to install the fresh air ducting before I put the hinges in and bolt the hood on. I just need to decide whether I'll put the front V on. Thoughts? V or no V?

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Old 12-11-2018, 08:07 AM
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I vote V.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
I vote V.
I agree. Normally I'm a minimal-trim sorta guy, but it looks naked with out just a bit of embellishment.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:05 PM
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I hope you keep the patina theme going.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:37 PM
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Put the "V" on it....
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Old 12-24-2018, 07:54 PM
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Thanks for the input, I've added the v. Looks good imo. I spent some time on the car Saturday, miscellaneous items. I added the v to the hood, reinstalled the fresh air ducts in the fenders (big pain), added the dash emblem, swapped the headlights, painted the fresh air ducts grills in the Headlight bezels, installed the hinges and the hood.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:09 AM
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Back to work. The break was productive, checking items off the list. As mentioned before, headlights, hood hinges, hood, etc. Also, upholstery for the rear speaker stands. Most of the break was doing powder coating for my dad's bike and for a local guy who's working on an old Ford pickup. The new PCM is installed, but I didn't even try it... wanted to wait until after the holidays in case it brings more disappointment. I'm somewhat confident it will correct the pedal issue and maybe more, just didn't want to deal with that yet.










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Old 01-05-2019, 02:28 AM
  #153  
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That's so bad ***! I hope my 55 Four Door Wagon turns out half as bad *** as yours. I'm going to go a bit more crazy with the transmission though
Keep up the momentum now that the holidays are out of the way.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rat_rod_russell View Post
That's so bad ***! I hope my 55 Four Door Wagon turns out half as bad *** as yours. I'm going to go a bit more crazy with the transmission though
Keep up the momentum now that the holidays are out of the way.
Thanks, the trick is to powder coat everything and then never run it! Good luck!

I tried the new PCM from BPAutomotive last weekend, no start, no injector pulse. My laptop was dead on arrival, so I wasn't able to read what's going on. I'm starting to lean toward a transmission issue, pointed out by my fellow troubleshooting tech locospl. No blown fuses, but really hard to move through the selectors in the trans, and tough to move around the shop in what we perceive to be neutral. The Lokar shifter has detents, so does the 4L80e. The working theory is that the two are not aligned, and that's causing no start. So, now that the lift is available again, we'll look into that. We're targeting a thrashing day next weekend where we won't take no for an answer.

Meanwhile, I've still been wrapping up loose ends. I applied upholstery to the rear speaker stands, upholstered the trim in the trunk and worked on outside trim. All of the belt line and over the window trim was removed, rust brushed down, converting primer applied and new clips installed. I even got a few pieces back on before Clemson beat the overrated elephants last Monday, looking good! The only trim remaining to be removed is around the windshield, and I know that'll be the worst of it. Once that's off, I'll powder it all at the same time and put it back on.




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Old 01-11-2019, 10:25 PM
  #155  
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I just read entire thread enjoyed the write up. Love the brakes. Will be checking back in for updates on the no start issues.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:16 AM
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Alabama overrated,lol. I'm not a Alabama fan but how can anyone argue with there success year after year. Extremely disciplined program is what I see. Anywho, I hope to see this cool wagon come to life soon.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by slocaddy View Post
I just read entire thread enjoyed the write up. Love the brakes. Will be checking back in for updates on the no start issues.
Thanks! I look forward to exercising them!

Saturday wasn't off to a good start... I bought replacement hood struts for the new hinges, 80# vs existing 360#. I popped the hood and went to put them on, they didn't fit the ball studs. Turns out they swapped to 10mm ***** for the 80# struts... because of course they did! Anyway, ordered a set of ball studs and moved on to the next item. I installed the trim over the rear wheels, no pics. I replaced the cheap upper A-arm ball joints that came with the arms with ACDelco ones. The ones on the arms had already torn the boot, hadn't even taken a mile. Geez. Also, the steering wheel will be replaced. I have the tilt on the column all the way up right now to see my gauges, but the cluster wasn't made for a tiny 350mm steering wheel. I'll be going with a 380mm, ordered it today.

Finally, I stopped avoiding the A/C and built a bracket for the condenser. I like it, it's just angle spanning the splash guard in front of the radiator with some creative bracketry hidden behind the condenser. Once powder coated, it shouldn't be noticed and should be plenty strong. Also, I parked on the lift and we'll be looking at the transmission this coming weekend in an effort to troubleshoot the no start.


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Old 01-18-2019, 06:46 PM
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Update, it runs!!! It was a tune issue. It's not resolved, but we managed to put a bpautomotive tune on the lsx power tuning pcm and it ran! More details monday, and maybe a video if I can get it to load on here.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:49 AM
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Here's the video of the first start... first video to Youtube, forgive me if something goes wrong or doesn't work.

Also, here are some more pictures of the progress this weekend. New steering wheel so I can see the gauges, shifter **** powder coated and shifter installed, trim prior to cure in the oven, new hood latch, condenser bracket powder coated and installed, and general stuff.








Last edited by themealonwheels; 01-21-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:11 AM
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The first start happened Friday around 2:30P after troubleshooting all morning. I and my counterpart Locospl (thanks, man, good thing one of us knows something about LS cars!) suspected the shifter wasn't allowing the trans to go to park position. The shifter has always been tight, especially getting out of park. Our first thing in the AM was to shift it to park and try it on the BP Automotive PCM. When I was under there disconnecting the linkage, I confirmed a suspicion: the trans bracket on the selector arm was around 2 o'clock in park. That leads to poor leverage for the linkage, causing a stiff feel when trying to shift out of park. I had anticipated this and bought a Lokar adjustable arm. By the end of the day, I had adjusted everything such that it's more like 1 o'clock in park, and the shifter feels a lot better.

Anyway, we shifted to park and attempted a start early in the AM, but got no fire. In troubleshooting a couple weeks ago, we found we had no fuel pump prime on the BP Automotive ECM. At the time, we had no reason to suspect the ECM and checked all the relays and fuses, no issues. So, we weren't sure whether the shifter position helped, but it was at least more usable and confirmed.

We attempted to read out the BP Automotive ECM on my HPTuners and it said no VIN was detected. We kind of scratched our brains on this, we could read the T42 TCM, but it was like there was no ECM. We're both new to E38/T42, so we called Bill to pick his brain. At this point, it's worth saying thanks to Bill for the support. We talked with him over the morning and early afternoon a few times, and while at first we were frustrated, he helped talk us through everything as best he could. Thanks, Bill!

So, after a few troubleshooting attempts, we decided to switch back to the LSX Power Tuning ECM. Tried it in park, no fire. After licensing the BP Automotive ECM and finding nothing, we asked Bill to send us the file. In the process, we discovered HPTuners was out of date. Geez... update that, then read Bill's file. More troubleshooting, then Locospl got gutsy: he licensed the BP file sent by email, then wrote that file and OS to the LSX Power Tuning ECM. From what I understand, this bricks the ECM. Sure enough, we can't read the ECM anymore.

But get this, the car started and ran! So the BP Automotive 2011 truck tune/OS on an 07-08 Van OS-written ECM worked! Again, we can't read the LSX Power Tuning ECM, probably indicating it's bricked. And the BP Auto ECM is (apparently) blank. But Bill is making it right and sending another ECM with his file. We'll try that and see where we are, but it seems like we've solved it! Still not entirely sure if the shifter position or the ECM was the issue, but we have fire! I let it get to 220 and burp, addressed a loose coolant hose clamp, and let it rest for the night. More to come!
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