Acuronda

iTrader: (1)

I am helping a friend install an LS1/4L60E into a '37 Ford. I have some questions for Oscar Will or anyone well versed in this type of installation. We are now locating the engine and would like to use the stock accessories and pulleys to keep the cost down. It seems obvious that the location of the fan/shroud versus the intake MAF/air cleaner size and shape determine the fore and aft location of the drivetrain. I see that we can go with an LS2 water pump and gain an inch or so. Looking at photos that Oscar has posted, it looks like he has notched and boxed the frame about an inch for alternator clearance. Was the right side of the frame notched an like amount to clear the compressor? Also, is the steering rack in the stock location or was it moved down or rotated to get clearance for the power steering hose connections and/or the steering shaft joint installations? Couldn't tell from the photos about the fan/shroud used. One thread said SPAL fan and another said Cooling Components fan/shroud. Which one was used and I assume it was installed at the bottom of the radiator to get clearance for the intake tube up to the MAF? It seems like the MAF/air cleaner assemblies offered by S & P are nice units but it seems like in this installation that you would have to use the thinnest unit for clearance but that would cause a severe restriction in flow. It is even tight using a 90 or 180 degree elbow to move the MAF/air cleaner elsewhere. There will be more questions/clarifications to follow but right now we are trying to locate the drivetrain and build the mounts for it. Oscar's recommendations on exhaust manifolds and motor mounts look like good ones. Thanks.

bustac

iTrader: (1)

I'd love to see some pix of your project, I'm workin on a 41 Coupe.
http://webpages.charter.net/4casey/tim/41coupe.htm

EARTH MOTORS

Flash the pcm to 1 bar speed density get rid of the mass air sensor that helps on air cleaner room,and pluming, power stearing lines are tight I use stock mustang lines on the rack they 90 out of the rack beter than after market line kits i use stock brackets allso 40 ford convert jv

Oscar Will

I'm glad to help. This installation isn't as easy as alot of people think. Our older cars/trucks have a really narrow engine bay to work with, and are not real friendly for a "longer" engine with accessories like an LS1. If you'll notice, the first thing I did was replace the stock firewall with a Direct Sheet Metal 5" recess firewall originally intended for his "big block" application. That gave me a little room to work with. By locating the engine back that far I could use the stock radiator location for my Walker radiator (w/condensor). The fan assembly is a Cooling Components part but I had problems with the fan motor being a little too "thick", it was right against the components in front of the engine. I solved this with the SPAL 16" fan....quite a bit thinner. It required some modification....but hey, if this stuff was too easy, everyone would be doing it! My frame is not notched or clearanced, since it is actually a Fatman Fabrications complete frame it is made of box tubing that is basically stock Ford dimensions. I did heat and push in that right side just a bit to allow access to the A/C belt. The left side clears fine. The Fatman front crossmember allowed a bolt-in of the Mustang II rack with 5 joints and three shafts to connect to the steering column, that took some engineering to get "right" but it works nicely, very smooth. I used all Borgeson parts. The intake was a problem and I'm starting to redesign it again, I fabricated the intake to allow use of the stock MAF sensor with a huge air box sitting on top of the plenum. The only problem here is my very high IAT readings.....much higher than it should be, so now I'm looking at ducting cold air somehow. Those S & P units do the job, but once again, the IAT will be VERY high and they are restrictive. Sometimes these companies have some really cool looking stuff for SHOW cars but I intended to DRIVE my car in all weather and conditions so it has to work properly.I still will maintain the MAF type system for drivability reasons. As I continue to put miles on this thing I find the need to constantly change and modify things as I go. Just get it on the road, have fun with it!!

Acuronda

iTrader: (1)

Oscar, were you able to mount a thin fan forward of the intake elbow or did you have to mount the fan below it on the bottom half of the radiator. I could not tell from the one pic I found on your posts that shows that area. Do you have a fan shroud or did you mount the fan to the back of the radiator. Also, it seems that the SPAL fans come in 2" thick with low CFM ratings or 4+" thick with high CFM ratings. What is the flow capacity of the one you are using and how and where did you mount it?

Oscar Will

The shroud and the fan assembly are mounted separately but both bolt to the radiator side panels. The fan motor ends up right in the center at my intake elbow. The SPAL motor is 3.39" thick and the spec is 2300 cfm I think. It has a straight blade fan on it which is pretty efficient but noisy as hell. It's part number is VA18-AP70/LL. I'll see if I can get a clear shot of it tonight after work. My PCM turns it on at 225 degrees and off at 190 degrees. It has seen some pretty awful ambient temperatures (like our trip to Boron, CA this summer) and it did a great job.

bada

I would like to see the cooling fan also. I am getting ready to install a LS7 in my 1932 truck. Also what are you radiator dimensions W x L x D. I have limited room for the radiator so I need to figure out how to get all the room I can. So some dimensions would help me figure out what I will need to do.

Oscar Will

Take a look at these. You can see there isn't a whole lot of room.....and please pardon the dirty appearance, it's been run hard this year and due for a good clean-up

bada

Thanks for the pictures. You are right it looks tight.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

What's room like on the back (firewall) side? You know you can turn LSX manifolds around backwards?

Oscar Will

You can get your hand between the firewall and the back of the engine, it is a replacement 5" recessed firewall from Direct Sheet Metal. With a stock firewall or lesser recess than 5", these engines won't fit at all. In fact, if it wasn't for the LS2 Corvette water pump, there would be no room for a fan either............however, you could put a big old GMC 6-71 blower on it with all the space on top of the engine!

Still one of my big problems is very high intake air temperature, I'm stuck in the engineering stage of that problem.

Acuronda

iTrader: (1)

Oscar, thanks for the great pics. They really show us what we are up against. They, however, raised another question. It appears that you have the lower water connection (from the thermostat) hooked up to the bottom of the radiator and the upper connection hooked up to the top of the radiator. These cars are usually set up with a downflow in the radiator. Your set up looks like an upflow. Is this correct or do the LS engines flow water differently than others in our experience? If it is an upflow, then having the cooling fan and shroud on the lower part of the radiator makes sense because you want the fan mounted on the hottest part of the radiator for best cooling effect. This would also help the fan motor/intake interference by being able to mount the fan lower on the radiator.

Stu Cool

iTrader: (13)

Acuronda, That's the way the flow goes from the factory. Top to Top, Bottom to Bottom. Thermostat is in the lower fitting. As far as I know the water flows down.

Oscar, for your cold air intake have you thought of sealing the air box and creating an inlet at the back of the hood or at the cowl?

Pat

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

wow that is definitely a tight fit! I can't believe that motor can even breathe with that intake setup..

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

I too am watching this thread because of the info about how you guys are solving the problems with the TB and MAF systems, especially in the old Ford bodys because of the short and tall engine compartment. I am just starting on a 6.0 in my '34 coupe and I especially enjoyed Oscar Will's pictures, and the comments from all of you. I have a digital camera and I can get pictures onto my computer, but I am such a DA about computers, that I have no idea how to include them in a post the way Oscar did. If anybody could tell me specifically how to do it, and I do mean in words an old man can understand, I would try to occasionally post some pictures of this project. I have an idea that I have sort of mocked up concerning the TB and MAF system that, if it will work, will give a few more inches of precious room in front. I would like to share it with you all and see if you think it could possibly work or maybe someone can tell me that it absolutely won't work and save me a lot of trouble and the expense of buying a harness and computer and all the other fuel injection necessities. It ought to be fun, regardless!

Oscar Will

The coolant flows from top to bottom and as Pat says that is the way it goes on an LSX engine. I would have preferred to position the shroud higher on the radiator or better yet over the entire radiator but it didn't work out that way. Sometimes you have to compromise a bit......like with the intake elbow, it's made from two u-bends of header tubing. The overall area is a little more than a stock Corvette snorkle and I tried to keep all the inside configuration as smooth flowing as possible. Watching the laptop while making a full throttle pass seems to indicate that the intake is not restricted, it's getting all the volume it needs.....just a very high IAT. Over the weekend I found a way to duct intake air from the front beside the radiator to the airbox. I need to mock it up and see how it all fits. I need to iron out all these little wrinkles because when the big motor is ready I'll need more air and I'll probably end up redeisgning the whole intake air thing anyway because of the slightly different design of the L76 intake and the big 90mm throttle body I am using. These things are never really "completed".........at least as long as you keep improving them!

As far as turning the intake around backwards, it would work fine except for the fact that some provisions would need to be made in the firewall....like install the air filter under the dash maybe? I even considered early on the possibility of using the original cowl vent for the intake but I abandoned that design........this is still a street driven hot rod....and now it has A/C in the dash with a fully functional cowl vent.