LS3 Swap Electrical Controls question: BCM
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Teching In
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 33
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From: Austin, Texas
LS3 Swap Electrical Controls question: BCM I seem to keep posting questions that no-one has answers for. Perhaps there is someone on the forum who can answer these questions.
I am in the middle of swapping a 2010 Camaro SS LS3/TR6060 into a 2000 Jaguar, and I am at the point that I need to figure out which direction to take concerning the electrical sub systems. (external to the ECM). My 2010 Camaro uses an E38 controller. I would like to figure out a way to get the BCM, to work in the car with a few key control modules: EBCM/TCS, Fuel Module, Cruise Control, HVAC, IPC. I understand that this generation of car implemented the new "Global A architecture"
My questions are;
- Does anyone know if I can defeat the security code and VIN verification that that BCM requires in order to alow the car to run?
- Does anyone know If I can operate the car without some of the Global A Security modules installed?
- Will the ECBM and fuel pump modules work without the BCM gateway and talk directly to the ECM?
Thanks.
Joe
I am in the middle of swapping a 2010 Camaro SS LS3/TR6060 into a 2000 Jaguar, and I am at the point that I need to figure out which direction to take concerning the electrical sub systems. (external to the ECM). My 2010 Camaro uses an E38 controller. I would like to figure out a way to get the BCM, to work in the car with a few key control modules: EBCM/TCS, Fuel Module, Cruise Control, HVAC, IPC. I understand that this generation of car implemented the new "Global A architecture"
My questions are;
- Does anyone know if I can defeat the security code and VIN verification that that BCM requires in order to alow the car to run?
- Does anyone know If I can operate the car without some of the Global A Security modules installed?
- Will the ECBM and fuel pump modules work without the BCM gateway and talk directly to the ECM?
Thanks.
Joe
TECH Resident
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 834
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From: Right here, right now!
I seem to keep posting questions that no-one has answers for. Perhaps there is someone on the forum who can answer these questions.
I am in the middle of swapping a 2010 Camaro SS LS3/TR6060 into a 2000 Jaguar, and I am at the point that I need to figure out which direction to take concerning the electrical sub systems. (external to the ECM). My 2010 Camaro uses an E38 controller. I would like to figure out a way to get the BCM, to work in the car with a few key control modules: EBCM/TCS, Fuel Module, Cruise Control, HVAC, IPC. I understand that this generation of car implemented the new "Global A architecture"
My questions are;
- Does anyone know if I can defeat the security code and VIN verification that that BCM requires in order to alow the car to run?
- Does anyone know If I can operate the car without some of the Global A Security modules installed?
- Will the ECBM and fuel pump modules work without the BCM gateway and talk directly to the ECM?
Thanks.
Joe
I am in the middle of swapping a 2010 Camaro SS LS3/TR6060 into a 2000 Jaguar, and I am at the point that I need to figure out which direction to take concerning the electrical sub systems. (external to the ECM). My 2010 Camaro uses an E38 controller. I would like to figure out a way to get the BCM, to work in the car with a few key control modules: EBCM/TCS, Fuel Module, Cruise Control, HVAC, IPC. I understand that this generation of car implemented the new "Global A architecture"
My questions are;
- Does anyone know if I can defeat the security code and VIN verification that that BCM requires in order to alow the car to run?
- Does anyone know If I can operate the car without some of the Global A Security modules installed?
- Will the ECBM and fuel pump modules work without the BCM gateway and talk directly to the ECM?
Thanks.
Joe
Either use the entire 2010 Camaro set of essential modules and related wiring in the Jag: ECM/BCM/EBCM & Yaw rate sensor + wheel speed sensors/Anti Theft Unit/IP/Key-Remote Access Unit/SRS etc.
or
Use the ECM by itself with the security patched out of the operating system.
Cheers
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 1
From: Austin, Texas
I believe your answer, but that is not what I want to hear. Post 2008 GM electrical controls architecture suck!
I am trying to dig into some rumors I heard, that some hackers are trying to figure out a way to spoof the BCM into thinking that all the modules are there. They are working on figuring out how to capture and then transmit the needed pass codes and Vin messages that the BCM looks for before telling the ECM it is OK to start the car.
If I can't have ABS/TCS without all the GM modules, are there any ABS control modules out there that operate independently of the BCM? Are there any older or after-market ABS sytems that work well that I could put on the car? I can live without ABS and make the car stop, but ABS has enough added benefits that I would be a nice option to keep.
Thanks for the response.
I am trying to dig into some rumors I heard, that some hackers are trying to figure out a way to spoof the BCM into thinking that all the modules are there. They are working on figuring out how to capture and then transmit the needed pass codes and Vin messages that the BCM looks for before telling the ECM it is OK to start the car.
If I can't have ABS/TCS without all the GM modules, are there any ABS control modules out there that operate independently of the BCM? Are there any older or after-market ABS sytems that work well that I could put on the car? I can live without ABS and make the car stop, but ABS has enough added benefits that I would be a nice option to keep.
Thanks for the response.
Last edited by tijoe; Oct 30, 2010 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Adding additional question
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Ventura, Ca
I don't know the new system but I ended up using the BCM and all the 4th gen wiring on my car. I know this is not what you are looking for but I was able to remove all the non-essential stuff for my application. This included the abs and air bag system. It would seem that you could tune out the error codes like the older systems while still being able to use what you want.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 1
From: Austin, Texas
I believe that GM CAN systems have evolved another level since the 4th gen Camaros. Greater integration of all the sub systems occurred starting around 2008. GM is using the Global-A Serial Data Electrical Architecture -- a high-and low-speed data network that connects system modules. On 2010 Camaro, LaCrosse, SRX, Equinox and Terrains. The main change is that they added "Global A Security" where a group of modules that communicate with the BCM have security codes and VIN for each vehicle programmed into the modules. They all have to be programmed with the same codes or else the BCM starts a timer that will shut down the system. All of the modules have to be programmed at the same time when the BCM is programmed or updated. The immobilizer has to receive all the correct information from each module before it will allow the ECM to start the car. If the correct codes are not received, and engine pre-release code will expire and the engine will start and then stall. My understanding is that all the modules have to be programmed through GM's Service Programming System via TIS downloads. I believe that the radio control module pass code cannot be reprogrammed at all.
So far, this as all I know about this new software.
Joe
So far, this as all I know about this new software.
Joe
TECH Resident
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 834
Likes: 12
From: Right here, right now!
I believe that GM CAN systems have evolved another level since the 4th gen Camaros. Greater integration of all the sub systems occurred starting around 2008. GM is using the Global-A Serial Data Electrical Architecture -- a high-and low-speed data network that connects system modules. On 2010 Camaro, LaCrosse, SRX, Equinox and Terrains. The main change is that they added "Global A Security" where a group of modules that communicate with the BCM have security codes and VIN for each vehicle programmed into the modules. They all have to be programmed with the same codes or else the BCM starts a timer that will shut down the system. All of the modules have to be programmed at the same time when the BCM is programmed or updated. The immobilizer has to receive all the correct information from each module before it will allow the ECM to start the car. If the correct codes are not received, and engine pre-release code will expire and the engine will start and then stall. My understanding is that all the modules have to be programmed through GM's Service Programming System via TIS downloads. I believe that the radio control module pass code cannot be reprogrammed at all.
So far, this as all I know about this new software.
Joe
So far, this as all I know about this new software.
Joe
I am trying to dig into some rumors I heard, that some hackers are trying to figure out a way to spoof the BCM into thinking that all the modules are there. They are working on figuring out how to capture and then transmit the needed pass codes and Vin messages that the BCM looks for before telling the ECM it is OK to start the car.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
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From: Toronto, Ontario
Sorry for bringing this back from the past.
I'm in similar situation as tijoe was where I have l99 out of 2010 Camaro and putting it into a custom build. OK maybe not same as I want manual transaxle instead of automatic that comes with l99, but thats another story.
Anyway, looking at trying to keep fuel pump module along with A/C and ABS systems in the car. As I'm looking at the schematics and with GM Global A platform a lot of that integration is linked into the the BCM and acts as a gateway between the systems. I know one thing for sure is that I need to remove VATS from the ECM in order to get the engine running and by passing the crank/starter from the ECU. However I'm trying to keep some of the control still within the ECM and send CAN bus signals for crank request and AC as there are couple of benefits in doing that. I can live with out the ABS but still would be nice to have.
I can build the electronics to simulate the BCM and code it as required for either normal key or push button but where I'm failing is finding CAN codes to send crank and AC request signals. It would be fairly easy if I had the complete setup to look for those codes but as I only have the ECU that is not the case.
Anyway its been few years since this message had been posted and I'm hoping that there had been some progress made and someone maybe able to help me out with the CAN codes or direct me somewhere else.
I'm in similar situation as tijoe was where I have l99 out of 2010 Camaro and putting it into a custom build. OK maybe not same as I want manual transaxle instead of automatic that comes with l99, but thats another story.
Anyway, looking at trying to keep fuel pump module along with A/C and ABS systems in the car. As I'm looking at the schematics and with GM Global A platform a lot of that integration is linked into the the BCM and acts as a gateway between the systems. I know one thing for sure is that I need to remove VATS from the ECM in order to get the engine running and by passing the crank/starter from the ECU. However I'm trying to keep some of the control still within the ECM and send CAN bus signals for crank request and AC as there are couple of benefits in doing that. I can live with out the ABS but still would be nice to have.
I can build the electronics to simulate the BCM and code it as required for either normal key or push button but where I'm failing is finding CAN codes to send crank and AC request signals. It would be fairly easy if I had the complete setup to look for those codes but as I only have the ECU that is not the case.
Anyway its been few years since this message had been posted and I'm hoping that there had been some progress made and someone maybe able to help me out with the CAN codes or direct me somewhere else.
architecture, bcm, camaro, code, control, conversion, cruise, e38, ecm, electrical, gateway, global, gm, jaguar, ls3, programming, vin
