Garage Built AWD Camaro
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Fort Campbell, KY
A 4x4 t-case isn't the answer I'm looking for either. It's bad for the car to run them engaged all the time (no LSD, direct coupling), and I don't want to disengage for front drive only.
At least the t-case comes off. That way if I ever decide to totally re-engineer my t-case to switch the bias around I can. Future project if the car actually gets a quirk I just can't stand.
I admire your ambition and willingness to tackle a project like this, but with the abundance of cheap, clean, rust-free 4th gens out there, why bother with this one? Sure, you are cutting out a lot of the floor but what about the rest of the car that you aren't?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Fort Campbell, KY
For the price, this was a great 4th gen to start this build on. It's actually just convenient that the floors had cancer, I'm sure I still would have gone this route even with perfect floors.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
The cars are 57% front weight bias from the factory iirc, the 4L80 will be heavier and sitting further back in the car. I imagine it will drive fine and would probably be great in the snow, but a rear engined car sending most of its power to the front wheels is going to spin its tires a whole lot more than a bone stock f-body. Bear in mind that the SUVs you are thinking about are first of all lumbering trucks, not designed for racing of any kind, but most importantly front engine setups- 70% front power bias makes a lot of sense if the vehicle has 60% of its weight over the front wheels.
Do a rear engine RWD, it will be cheaper and more traction friendly, same cool factor but it would launch rather than smoke its front tires and kill you with torque steer. Plus you could always install a front differential later, after getting the extremely complex rear suspension/drivetrain setup you have planned safe and road-worthy.
Do a rear engine RWD, it will be cheaper and more traction friendly, same cool factor but it would launch rather than smoke its front tires and kill you with torque steer. Plus you could always install a front differential later, after getting the extremely complex rear suspension/drivetrain setup you have planned safe and road-worthy.
The cars are 57% front weight bias from the factory iirc, the 4L80 will be heavier and sitting further back in the car. I imagine it will drive fine and would probably be great in the snow, but a rear engined car sending most of its power to the front wheels is going to spin its tires a whole lot more than a bone stock f-body. Bear in mind that the SUVs you are thinking about are first of all lumbering trucks, not designed for racing of any kind, but most importantly front engine setups- 70% front power bias makes a lot of sense if the vehicle has 60% of its weight over the front wheels.
Do a rear engine RWD, it will be cheaper and more traction friendly, same cool factor but it would launch rather than smoke its front tires and kill you with torque steer. Plus you could always install a front differential later, after getting the extremely complex rear suspension/drivetrain setup you have planned safe and road-worthy.
Do a rear engine RWD, it will be cheaper and more traction friendly, same cool factor but it would launch rather than smoke its front tires and kill you with torque steer. Plus you could always install a front differential later, after getting the extremely complex rear suspension/drivetrain setup you have planned safe and road-worthy.
I say more power to him
....but I also get what you're saying. Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Fort Campbell, KY
Just got back from a parts run, picked up a 4L-80E that needs a rebuild. Just to get an idea of how everything is gonna fit in my project, I went ahead and laided it all out for some measurements....
Then I got some tape and marked it off on the camaro. This spot shows where the front of the engine block ends and my accessories will begin. Puts the rear axle line 2"-3" under the front of the engine block. That puts about 95% of the weight of the drive train in front of the rear axle line.
Here's where the back of the engine and the front of the tranny starts. That is just behind where the back seats were mounted.
Here's the back of the trans with a 2" adapter plate figured in. The t-case starts here as well.
Here's the end of the t-case, right about where the shifter used to be.
So with a seat thrown in there and the tape markings, you guys can get an idea where the weight is gonna rest. This is why I'm not too worried about the weight bias, it's going to work out pretty good.
Then I got some tape and marked it off on the camaro. This spot shows where the front of the engine block ends and my accessories will begin. Puts the rear axle line 2"-3" under the front of the engine block. That puts about 95% of the weight of the drive train in front of the rear axle line.
Here's where the back of the engine and the front of the tranny starts. That is just behind where the back seats were mounted.
Here's the back of the trans with a 2" adapter plate figured in. The t-case starts here as well.
Here's the end of the t-case, right about where the shifter used to be.
So with a seat thrown in there and the tape markings, you guys can get an idea where the weight is gonna rest. This is why I'm not too worried about the weight bias, it's going to work out pretty good.
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Sorry, you are wasting money, chasing a pipe dream. Do yourself a favor and quit now. You can't afford to re engineer the wheel.
I know this sounds harsh, but I promise you I'm looking out for you.
I know this sounds harsh, but I promise you I'm looking out for you.
If everyone built/did things that have already been done, there would be no forward progression and we'd still be living like cavemen. Sure, doing a project like this in a home garage versus a shop or where ever may be a very challenging thing to do for the OP, but it's a project. I'm sure he'll enjoy himself no matter what the outcome is.
Do yourself a favor and use a gto oil pan and push the engine as far back a possible. Your passenger won't have and place to sit with a t-case where there legs should be. If you can't put the t-case behind the seats your going to hit a big road block
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Fort Campbell, KY
This is from another site, but an interesting read. Used it as a guide while I was developing my plan of attack. A couple of guys converted a C3 corvette to AWD with good results. Nothing fancy but the fabrication, which was done with basic welding and cutting tools. I think the only tool they had I don't is a hoist, check it out....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ngray-awd.html
Last edited by turbinesurgeon; Dec 30, 2011 at 04:46 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 95
Likes: 1
From: Elk River, MN
Holy hell, I hope you know what you're getting into...
Not to be a jerk, but I would have chosen a different car as a platform for AWD, F-bodies barely have room for dual-exhaust underneath them.
-matt
Not to be a jerk, but I would have chosen a different car as a platform for AWD, F-bodies barely have room for dual-exhaust underneath them.
-matt
and get out. I hope that turbinesurgeon is wildly successful. I think he knows what he is doing. The t-case will actually be just underneath the passanger seat. between raising the floor and flush mounting the seat without the factory sliding bracket, there is space to be had there. With the only drive shaft going to front using the same path as the existing trans tunnel, no leg room issue.
This is from another site, but an interesting read. Used it as a guide while I was developing my plan of attack. A couple of guys converted a C3 corvette to AWD with good results. Nothing fancy but the fabrication, which was done with basic welding and cutting tools. I think the only tool they had I don't is a hoist, check it out....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ngray-awd.html
This is from another site, but an interesting read. Used it as a guide while I was developing my plan of attack. A couple of guys converted a C3 corvette to AWD with good results. Nothing fancy but the fabrication, which was done with basic welding and cutting tools. I think the only tool they had I don't is a hoist, check it out....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ngray-awd.html
I, for one, am reading along with each one of your new posts. Good luck with your build! This thing is going to be crazy when you get it done! I can't wait to see the final product.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Fort Campbell, KY
I'm gonna share all the details I can with the fabrication phase, structure repair/modification is more patience driven that voodoo magic. I get alot of practice on ARMY aircraft fixing things that get worn out, shot up, or broke; it's just nice to finally have the space and time to use this experience on my own project.
I'm hoping to get the frame from the floor boards back completed, and the rear part of the drivetrain mounting figured out before the end of July. After that, everything goes on hold for about 9 months for another over-seas tour
At least I'll get the chance to save the $$$ to sink into the suspension when I get back.