Cheap Manual for 4.8?
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Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 76
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There is also a weight penalty for the t56. I'm trying to reduce front axel weight. 6 gears would be nice, but not necessary. weight, weight, weight
I could deal with the shifter being 4" back with the ma5.
I could deal with the shifter being 4" back with the ma5.
I am aware of that but they want more money then I am willing to pay for a Lakewood or any of the other steel ones. Cast will be fine without paying double or triple the price. I don't need an SFI approved bell.
MA5/AR5 would be a good choice, I almost went that way with my e36 M3 5.3 swap but found an awesome deal on a t56 and didn't look back. The cost for swapping to an AR5 was about the same as holding out for a T56 in the end. The only difference being that you can easily replace the AR5 when it does die. I've been looking into the swap for my '63 C10 5.3 project.
Here is my info on that transmission http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&highlight=MA5 :
Right for a nice chunk of change I am not going to spend at the moment. When I get a TKO I will be looking into a blowproof bellhousing but now it's not in the cards.
Yes, I've been looking at those alternitives, but an R154 goes for the same price as a T56 I might as well just get a TKO in that price range. I can get an AR-5 (basically an AX15) cheaply through work, but there is a lot of custom stuff I am not ready nor willing to do at the moment. specifically related to the clutch.
By the time I am done with just the conversion bellhousing and clutch kits to make that stuff work I'm already back in T56/TKO territory.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/categ.../0/0/0/24/0/0/
OR Google once again comes through....
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_gmax15.htm
Novak makes an adapter piece to get the MA5 (AR-5) Colorado 5 speed to mate to a GM bellhousing. The good thing about this is that a standard LSx 26 Spline clutch will work with this setup. Still need the LS1 Conversion bellhousing but then the adapter plate as well.
This route does NOT work for the R154 because of the different input haft length.
Here is my info on that transmission http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&highlight=MA5 :
It's probably been mentioned on here before, but Quicktime makes a bellhousing for the LSX/mustang T-5, TKO 600 etc. Part number RM 6037.
It's available everywhere, Jegs, Summit, or from Quicktime www.quicktimeinc.com
It's available everywhere, Jegs, Summit, or from Quicktime www.quicktimeinc.com
By the time I am done with just the conversion bellhousing and clutch kits to make that stuff work I'm already back in T56/TKO territory.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/categ.../0/0/0/24/0/0/
OR Google once again comes through....
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_gmax15.htm
Novak makes an adapter piece to get the MA5 (AR-5) Colorado 5 speed to mate to a GM bellhousing. The good thing about this is that a standard LSx 26 Spline clutch will work with this setup. Still need the LS1 Conversion bellhousing but then the adapter plate as well.
This route does NOT work for the R154 because of the different input haft length.
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/colo...wap-63568.html
The MA5 2WD 5-speed out of the GM Canyon\Colorado pickups may be an interesting T5 alternative. They are closely related to the Jeep AX15 and Toyota R150 5-speeds. Todd Kozak of Kozak Automotive was kind enough to send the following info about them, some pics and some info about a project he and a buddy are involved in:
"Greg, the stock THM 350 mount does indeed bolt up to the MA5, although by the looks of it about 1 inch will need to be sectioned from the total height of the mount to properly orient the trans on the crossmember. The 4 speed pictured is a 1970 vintage Muncie M20 with a Pontiac A-body shifter attached to it. Some floor ' clearancing ' may be necessary but in my opinion not too much. The MA5 shifter is closer to the center of the driveline tunnel , so the opening would be re-located slightly to the right. A good friend of mine is going to put it in his 64 GTO , of all things an original tripower 4 speed car. When I ordered the (Novak) adapter last week, the guy at Novak told me they had a customer who had an AX-15 behind an LS1 in a Jeep and it lasted for 6 months. I'm sure they were off-roading it and pounding on it. We plan to put the MA5 into service behind a 400 Pontiac which has more torque output than the LS1.However, it will be street driven only so it may prove to be a good swap. Time will tell. The MA5 has a 1 1/8 inch diameter 26 spline GM input with 0.668 pilot diameter (Muncie, Borg Warner ST-10, T-56) and 27 spline GM output (TH350, Muncie) shafts. Check out the Muncie 4 speed comparison pic. Use a Novak adapter on the front of the MA5 to bolt it right to a conventional Chevy bellhousing or BOP bellhousing, using all your original clutch linkage etc."
Todds direct email is: djd@acsworld.com
Greg
PS. I forgot to mention. The bellhousing that comes with the MA5 will bolt directly up to a 275HP GM DOHC 4.2L I6 out of the Envoy\Trailblazer\Bravada. Also, the MA5 uses an electronic speedometer output. Gear ratio's are: 3.753 2.26 1.37 1.00 0.729
The MA5 2WD 5-speed out of the GM Canyon\Colorado pickups may be an interesting T5 alternative. They are closely related to the Jeep AX15 and Toyota R150 5-speeds. Todd Kozak of Kozak Automotive was kind enough to send the following info about them, some pics and some info about a project he and a buddy are involved in:
"Greg, the stock THM 350 mount does indeed bolt up to the MA5, although by the looks of it about 1 inch will need to be sectioned from the total height of the mount to properly orient the trans on the crossmember. The 4 speed pictured is a 1970 vintage Muncie M20 with a Pontiac A-body shifter attached to it. Some floor ' clearancing ' may be necessary but in my opinion not too much. The MA5 shifter is closer to the center of the driveline tunnel , so the opening would be re-located slightly to the right. A good friend of mine is going to put it in his 64 GTO , of all things an original tripower 4 speed car. When I ordered the (Novak) adapter last week, the guy at Novak told me they had a customer who had an AX-15 behind an LS1 in a Jeep and it lasted for 6 months. I'm sure they were off-roading it and pounding on it. We plan to put the MA5 into service behind a 400 Pontiac which has more torque output than the LS1.However, it will be street driven only so it may prove to be a good swap. Time will tell. The MA5 has a 1 1/8 inch diameter 26 spline GM input with 0.668 pilot diameter (Muncie, Borg Warner ST-10, T-56) and 27 spline GM output (TH350, Muncie) shafts. Check out the Muncie 4 speed comparison pic. Use a Novak adapter on the front of the MA5 to bolt it right to a conventional Chevy bellhousing or BOP bellhousing, using all your original clutch linkage etc."
Todds direct email is: djd@acsworld.com
Greg
PS. I forgot to mention. The bellhousing that comes with the MA5 will bolt directly up to a 275HP GM DOHC 4.2L I6 out of the Envoy\Trailblazer\Bravada. Also, the MA5 uses an electronic speedometer output. Gear ratio's are: 3.753 2.26 1.37 1.00 0.729
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_gmax15.htm
Novak makes an adapter piece to get the MA5 (AR-5) Colorado 5 speed to mate to a GM bellhousing. The good thing about this is that a standard LSx 26 Spline clutch will work with this setup. Still need the LS1 Conversion bellhousing but then the adapter plate as well.
This route does NOT work for the R154 because of the different input haft length.
Novak makes an adapter piece to get the MA5 (AR-5) Colorado 5 speed to mate to a GM bellhousing. The good thing about this is that a standard LSx 26 Spline clutch will work with this setup. Still need the LS1 Conversion bellhousing but then the adapter plate as well.
This route does NOT work for the R154 because of the different input haft length.
The 21 spline 1-1/8" input shaft is the biggest problem. Finding a proper sized clutch is almost impossible on the cheap. I have 2 choices right now. The advance adapters clutch disc for $120 or a custom full face unsprung feramic for $300-$400. Or maybe I will bite the bullet and get quartermaster to build me a button unit twin disc.
The R154 can be found for a decent price but patienece is definitely the key. Just had a kid near me sell one for $400 and I told him he was out of his mind and if he had more for that price I would buy them all.
That is why I was saying it does not work for the R154 due to the input shaft. I guess I should rephrase that... Yes it bolts together but you have to deal with the input shaft and associated parts that are not off the shelf.
I forget what the stock supra clutch disc size is... I used to have one laying around...
I think that the R154 is a good alternitive but still not something that would be an "easy" swap. I think that the MA5 out of a Colorado or Solstice might be the better option for us GM guys. Since we can then simply use a 26 spline clutch disc. In my case I could use an LS7 clutch with no worries. The other thing i wonder about is whether I can swap the input shaft from the MA5 into the R154. But I do not have any hand on internal parts time on these transmissions.
My '63 C10 project will probably receive a Colorado MA5 with a 5.3. Should be a pretty decent combination. I had thought about the NV3500 that comes behind the 4.8 but I have heard that it does not like upper RPM shifts for when I feel like having a hot rod truck. I guess that is what the LSx M3 is for.
I forget what the stock supra clutch disc size is... I used to have one laying around...
I think that the R154 is a good alternitive but still not something that would be an "easy" swap. I think that the MA5 out of a Colorado or Solstice might be the better option for us GM guys. Since we can then simply use a 26 spline clutch disc. In my case I could use an LS7 clutch with no worries. The other thing i wonder about is whether I can swap the input shaft from the MA5 into the R154. But I do not have any hand on internal parts time on these transmissions.
My '63 C10 project will probably receive a Colorado MA5 with a 5.3. Should be a pretty decent combination. I had thought about the NV3500 that comes behind the 4.8 but I have heard that it does not like upper RPM shifts for when I feel like having a hot rod truck. I guess that is what the LSx M3 is for.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Look for a clutch disc out of an 05 and newer Tacoma with a six speed. The splines are the same and the OD on the disc is 10 7/8 which I think would work with the gm 11" cover and flywheel. I don't personally have any experience doing this but that is my plan for an l33 swap in my Cressida.
