Intake manifold heights?
05-09-2014, 06:25 PM
#1
Launching!
Thread Starter
Intake manifold heights? I am sure there is a link to the information somewhere, but regardless of my search terms, I can't find it. So sorry in advance.
Got the LM7 in the Range Rover, and I lifted it to make the rear of the oil pan miss the tie rod which is behind the front axle.
Installed a Holley oil pan, so now have LOTS of room on the lower portion, but it now hits the differential housing on the top corner of the housing!
I really want to lower it back down, so am investigating other options.
I currently run the truck intake, and can't raise it anymore than it is already with that intake.
Is there a thread/link to the various intake manifold heights?
Looking at the car/after market ones, they appear to be lower, but can't find any actual numbers to see if it will solve my issues or not.
Any information greatly appreciated.
Martin
Got the LM7 in the Range Rover, and I lifted it to make the rear of the oil pan miss the tie rod which is behind the front axle.
Installed a Holley oil pan, so now have LOTS of room on the lower portion, but it now hits the differential housing on the top corner of the housing!
I really want to lower it back down, so am investigating other options.
I currently run the truck intake, and can't raise it anymore than it is already with that intake.
Is there a thread/link to the various intake manifold heights?
Looking at the car/after market ones, they appear to be lower, but can't find any actual numbers to see if it will solve my issues or not.
Any information greatly appreciated.
Martin
05-09-2014, 06:56 PM
#2
TECH Resident
I saw a forum sometime in the past where a guy took measurements. The LS1 intake is either 5.75" or 6" from the top of the block. I imagine the LS6 intake is probably right along those lines as well. Other intakes, I dunno. Most people do the LS1 or LS6 intake....or the FAST intake.
05-09-2014, 09:35 PM
#3
Launching!
Thread Starter
Thanks Dave.
I want to be 110% sure on what height I will/will not gain, before spending the coin on it. Will try searching again and see if I can find the thread.
Martin
I want to be 110% sure on what height I will/will not gain, before spending the coin on it. Will try searching again and see if I can find the thread.
Martin
05-10-2014, 08:45 AM
#4
I measured them when I did my build. The LS1 / LS6 intake are the same external height but have different internal dimensions. The difference in the plenum volume is gained by going closer to the block with the LS6 intake rather than going up like a traditional intake.
The height difference between a Gen III cathedral port "truck" and "car" intake is around 5 to six inches depending on if you lose the EVAP from the top of the truck intake or not.
Sorry for the image quality, it was an old camera at the time that was slowly going bad.
I thought I measured from the base of the block to the top of the intake as well but I don't have a note of the measurement with me. I also have an LS3 intake and I think that is pretty close to the LS1 / LS6 dimension but will have to check.
The height difference between a Gen III cathedral port "truck" and "car" intake is around 5 to six inches depending on if you lose the EVAP from the top of the truck intake or not.
Sorry for the image quality, it was an old camera at the time that was slowly going bad.
I thought I measured from the base of the block to the top of the intake as well but I don't have a note of the measurement with me. I also have an LS3 intake and I think that is pretty close to the LS1 / LS6 dimension but will have to check.
05-10-2014, 09:01 AM
#5
Launching!
Thread Starter
That is exactly what I was looking for Gofast, cheers.
I have a spare truck intake, so will compare it to the one you pictured there.
Looks like I am shopping for an intake, which is easier than a new axle!
Best one to look for is an LS2 intake? Or other options that are less hassle etc?
I know the fuel system will need some modifying, as it currently runs a return line.
And if the intake is off, the camshaft is really close by..........
Martin
I have a spare truck intake, so will compare it to the one you pictured there.
Looks like I am shopping for an intake, which is easier than a new axle!
Best one to look for is an LS2 intake? Or other options that are less hassle etc?
I know the fuel system will need some modifying, as it currently runs a return line.
And if the intake is off, the camshaft is really close by..........
Martin
Last edited by leftlanetruckin; 05-10-2014 at 09:13 AM.
05-10-2014, 09:51 AM
#6
TECH Resident
That is exactly what I was looking for Gofast, cheers.
I have a spare truck intake, so will compare it to the one you pictured there.
Looks like I am shopping for an intake, which is easier than a new axle!
Best one to look for is an LS2 intake? Or other options that are less hassle etc?
I know the fuel system will need some modifying, as it currently runs a return line.
And if the intake is off, the camshaft is really close by..........
Martin
I have a spare truck intake, so will compare it to the one you pictured there.
Looks like I am shopping for an intake, which is easier than a new axle!
Best one to look for is an LS2 intake? Or other options that are less hassle etc?
I know the fuel system will need some modifying, as it currently runs a return line.
And if the intake is off, the camshaft is really close by..........
Martin
05-10-2014, 10:14 AM
#7
Launching!
Thread Starter
Thanks Dave, measurements would be great, from a flat surface, then I can compare it to my spare truck intake.
What intake would be a good candidate to swap in there? Considering reasonable power/torque, and compact size (dont always go together I know)
Martin
What intake would be a good candidate to swap in there? Considering reasonable power/torque, and compact size (dont always go together I know)
Martin
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05-10-2014, 01:25 PM
#8
TECH Resident
LS2 is 5.75", measuring from the valley cover to the top of the intake.
LS6 is probably the most popular intake to swap out, but if you want real power the Fast intake is probably your best bet. I think $900+ is a ridiculous price tag though. The LS6 can be found on ebay or craigslist or even this site in the ballpark of $300. LS1 is also an option, but you won't get any performance increase over the truck manifold. It will be roughly the same as what you have now, with a slight reduction in torque. The upside to the LS1 is they are about $50.
Keep in mind that whatever intake you buy you will need new fuel rails (at least all the truck rails I have seen arch up even higher than the intake), you may or may not need new injectors too. I know the truck flex fuel injectors will plug into an LS1 intake with a spacer (I have done it myself), but any other combination of injector and intake I can't help you with.
LS6 is probably the most popular intake to swap out, but if you want real power the Fast intake is probably your best bet. I think $900+ is a ridiculous price tag though. The LS6 can be found on ebay or craigslist or even this site in the ballpark of $300. LS1 is also an option, but you won't get any performance increase over the truck manifold. It will be roughly the same as what you have now, with a slight reduction in torque. The upside to the LS1 is they are about $50.
Keep in mind that whatever intake you buy you will need new fuel rails (at least all the truck rails I have seen arch up even higher than the intake), you may or may not need new injectors too. I know the truck flex fuel injectors will plug into an LS1 intake with a spacer (I have done it myself), but any other combination of injector and intake I can't help you with.
05-10-2014, 01:57 PM
#9
Launching!
Thread Starter
Thank you Dave, or David?
Looks like a LS6 intake may be in my future.
Mind, I have a 17yr old that is yearning to have my 5.3 in his Range Rover, so maybe time for a whole LS2 or 3 motor, if one can be found for less than the price of a whole vehicle!
Martin
Looks like a LS6 intake may be in my future.
Mind, I have a 17yr old that is yearning to have my 5.3 in his Range Rover, so maybe time for a whole LS2 or 3 motor, if one can be found for less than the price of a whole vehicle!
Martin
05-10-2014, 05:56 PM
#10
Launching!
Thread Starter
From my reading, and I haven't had a lot of time to research, it looks like some intakes will allow the use of my current DBC throttle body, and others will not. Are the later TB's also available in DBC? The rig is a Range Rover, and running a new pedal for DBW would be a nightmare.
Anything else I need to watch for specifically when bolting an intake onto a LM7?
Thanks as always
Martin
Anything else I need to watch for specifically when bolting an intake onto a LM7?
Thanks as always
Martin
05-10-2014, 06:55 PM
#11
TECH Resident
Dave, David, Davey, Dude....they all work fine!
You'll have to look into it further, but I know that the LS1 intakes are all cable controlled. As long as the LS6 intake has the 3 bolt holes (and not 4) then the TB you have now will bolt to it. I believe there are also 3-to-4 adapters, but I never looked into it. I know Fast does make a cable controlled TB that fits their intake (and I assume it can fit other intakes as well). That thing is a monster at 102mm (I think, anyway).
You are going to hit a limit for power though if you are using the truck TB. You can turbo it or supercharge and force more power to it, but the truck TB is pretty small.
I had to fabricate a bracket to install my DBW LS2 pedal. It's not as hard as you're probably imagining. I just formed it in cardboard first, holding the new pedal in the basic position I needed it, then got some 2" wide 1/8" steel flat stock. I put in in a vise and hammered it to bend it. I welded another bent piece of steel to it to add two additional bolts...drilled some holes in the firewall, and it was done. If you get an LS2, or LS3 you'll have to do that.
Other things to look for when bolting it on....in my case when I did it on my 5.3, it was as simple as unbolting one and bolting in the other. I have seen some people have issues with steam lines and such in the way. I never had that, so I can't say much about it.
One thing you will DEFINITELY run into is the TB/waterpump issue. When you lower the TB (by putting a shorter intake on) you bring the TB down and the cable arm on the side is going to hit the waterneck on the waterpump. To fix this, get a nice rounded hammer (ball peen works best) and "massage" the waterneck where it hits the TB arm. Don't worry you won't hurt that metal as long as you're not going all He-Man on it. Just make a dent in it so the cable arm will clear. You may also take a Dremel tool to the cable arm in places to get it to clear. It's not that hard to do though. Took me about 10 minutes.
That being said, I abandoned my 5.3 project and bought an LS2....where everything fits like it's supposed to. It's just less of a headache. Plus my 5.3 was trashed, so it was a good excuse to buy the more expensive motor
You'll have to look into it further, but I know that the LS1 intakes are all cable controlled. As long as the LS6 intake has the 3 bolt holes (and not 4) then the TB you have now will bolt to it. I believe there are also 3-to-4 adapters, but I never looked into it. I know Fast does make a cable controlled TB that fits their intake (and I assume it can fit other intakes as well). That thing is a monster at 102mm (I think, anyway).
You are going to hit a limit for power though if you are using the truck TB. You can turbo it or supercharge and force more power to it, but the truck TB is pretty small.
I had to fabricate a bracket to install my DBW LS2 pedal. It's not as hard as you're probably imagining. I just formed it in cardboard first, holding the new pedal in the basic position I needed it, then got some 2" wide 1/8" steel flat stock. I put in in a vise and hammered it to bend it. I welded another bent piece of steel to it to add two additional bolts...drilled some holes in the firewall, and it was done. If you get an LS2, or LS3 you'll have to do that.
Other things to look for when bolting it on....in my case when I did it on my 5.3, it was as simple as unbolting one and bolting in the other. I have seen some people have issues with steam lines and such in the way. I never had that, so I can't say much about it.
One thing you will DEFINITELY run into is the TB/waterpump issue. When you lower the TB (by putting a shorter intake on) you bring the TB down and the cable arm on the side is going to hit the waterneck on the waterpump. To fix this, get a nice rounded hammer (ball peen works best) and "massage" the waterneck where it hits the TB arm. Don't worry you won't hurt that metal as long as you're not going all He-Man on it. Just make a dent in it so the cable arm will clear. You may also take a Dremel tool to the cable arm in places to get it to clear. It's not that hard to do though. Took me about 10 minutes.
That being said, I abandoned my 5.3 project and bought an LS2....where everything fits like it's supposed to. It's just less of a headache. Plus my 5.3 was trashed, so it was a good excuse to buy the more expensive motor
05-10-2014, 09:28 PM
#12
Launching!
Thread Starter
Thank you for all that Dave! Great information mate.
I had to fabricate everything for this swap myself, except for the headers and oil pan. I dont think the throttle pedal will be a big deal, but it is kind of "busy" under the dashboard of a Range Rover!
I rebuilt the 5.3 before dropping it in the Rover. New pistons, cam, all bearings, and so on. Not sure if the power difference of a LS2 would be worth it, or maybe a performance cam for the LM7?
Some of the parts I had to make for this project so far. No templates to copy, just me and my faithful plasma cutter and 250 amp mig welder!
Adapter shaft to go from the 700R4 output shaft to the Rover transfer case input shaft.
Adapter for the trans to transfer case
Adapter plate I made to run the Rover AC compressor and PS pump, where they were on the Rover, to save any adapter fittings and such.
Alternator bracket for the LM7 alternator. Moved it to where I wanted it, instead of where GM though it should be...
Martin
I had to fabricate everything for this swap myself, except for the headers and oil pan. I dont think the throttle pedal will be a big deal, but it is kind of "busy" under the dashboard of a Range Rover!
I rebuilt the 5.3 before dropping it in the Rover. New pistons, cam, all bearings, and so on. Not sure if the power difference of a LS2 would be worth it, or maybe a performance cam for the LM7?
Some of the parts I had to make for this project so far. No templates to copy, just me and my faithful plasma cutter and 250 amp mig welder!
Adapter shaft to go from the 700R4 output shaft to the Rover transfer case input shaft.
Adapter for the trans to transfer case
Adapter plate I made to run the Rover AC compressor and PS pump, where they were on the Rover, to save any adapter fittings and such.
Alternator bracket for the LM7 alternator. Moved it to where I wanted it, instead of where GM though it should be...
Martin
05-10-2014, 09:31 PM
#13
TECH Resident
Haha well then yeah, you wouldn't have any trouble making a little pedal bracket. under my dash is a little busy too, but I had to cram it in there. Never seen on in a Range Rover though.
05-11-2014, 04:41 PM
#16
TECH Resident
05-12-2014, 09:18 PM
#17
Launching!
Thread Starter
As an update, I got the LS6 intake complete for a good price. It's on it's way to my place.
Hopefully this will allow me to raise the engine up enough to clear the Holley oil pan from the front differential.
From my reading, will need new bolts and gaskets, then maybe some massaging of the water pump. I could change to the car water pump, as all other accessories are on custom mounts. Anyone know off hand the difference between the two, as far as how far the car stuff tucks in vs the truck stuff?
And David, I read your whole build thread mate. Your interior work is truly inspirational!!! Not demeaning anything else, but your modifications to the door cards, center console and dashboard are truly inspiring.
Martin
Hopefully this will allow me to raise the engine up enough to clear the Holley oil pan from the front differential.
From my reading, will need new bolts and gaskets, then maybe some massaging of the water pump. I could change to the car water pump, as all other accessories are on custom mounts. Anyone know off hand the difference between the two, as far as how far the car stuff tucks in vs the truck stuff?
And David, I read your whole build thread mate. Your interior work is truly inspirational!!! Not demeaning anything else, but your modifications to the door cards, center console and dashboard are truly inspiring.
Martin
Last edited by leftlanetruckin; 05-12-2014 at 09:38 PM.
05-12-2014, 11:30 PM
#18
TECH Resident
As an update, I got the LS6 intake complete for a good price. It's on it's way to my place.
Hopefully this will allow me to raise the engine up enough to clear the Holley oil pan from the front differential.
From my reading, will need new bolts and gaskets, then maybe some massaging of the water pump. I could change to the car water pump, as all other accessories are on custom mounts. Anyone know off hand the difference between the two, as far as how far the car stuff tucks in vs the truck stuff?
And David, I read your whole build thread mate. Your interior work is truly inspirational!!! Not demeaning anything else, but your modifications to the door cards, center console and dashboard are truly inspiring.
Martin
Hopefully this will allow me to raise the engine up enough to clear the Holley oil pan from the front differential.
From my reading, will need new bolts and gaskets, then maybe some massaging of the water pump. I could change to the car water pump, as all other accessories are on custom mounts. Anyone know off hand the difference between the two, as far as how far the car stuff tucks in vs the truck stuff?
And David, I read your whole build thread mate. Your interior work is truly inspirational!!! Not demeaning anything else, but your modifications to the door cards, center console and dashboard are truly inspiring.
Martin
