67 firebird ls1 swap?
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From: Canada
Re: 67 firebird ls1 swap? Check out the JAN issue of Popular Hot Rodding there`s an tech artical "Feeling No Pain" on the swap of my 67 camaro <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" />
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 21
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From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: 67 firebird ls1 swap? hey discoroll,
Good to hear from another camaro nut in the norcal (I'm in Santa Clara). There are quite a few options to address with the LS1/T56 swap, and a lot of shops making parts to help with the swap. If you stick with the stock frame I think you can purchase all the the parts to get the motor in and running without any fabrication.
Motor Mounts : LS1 mounts are different then the old small block style. Speed & Performance [www.hotrodlane.cc] makes a set of adapter plates ($100) that bolt to the block and allow you to bolt the old sbc mounts to them. I'm using these on my project. (I had to modify them because I'm not using the stock subframe)
Trannsmission Crossmember : Tyler Beauregard [http://www.pro-touring.com/t56/index.htm] make a crossmember that will work with the T56 and stock firstgen subframe.
OilPan : I've heard the rear steering linkage of the firstgen f-body's will hit the ls1 oilpan when you turn. Speed and Performance can modify your oilpan to do this. Also, the LS1 uses a few different oil pans depending what car the motor came out of. You want the camaro/firebird pan (as opposed to the vette or truck).
Headers: Again for the stock frame, Stainlessworks [www.stainlessworks.net]and Speed & Performance make headers that should work. If you use the stock exhaust manifolds you will need to grind the driver side a little to clear the steering box.
Clutch : The clutch is hydrualic and you need to mount the clutch master cylinder to the firewall and attach the pushrod to the stock (firstgen) clutch pedal. Tyler Beauregard includes this bracket in his kit for T56 swaps.
Wiring/Computer/VATS : There are a lot of places that will modify your harness and computer. Some that come to mind are Speartech [http://www.speartech.com/] and Speed & Performance. If you are comfortable with wiringand can read a schematic than a set of service manuals will set you back about $120 and you could rewire it yourself. I did it myself, but sometimes wonder if the time I spent was worth the money I saved.
Accessories : I think the LS1 AC Compressor will hit the firstgen subframe. So either relocate it with a bracket or notch the subframe. I'm not sure about the alternator. If you aren't using the AC and are having clearance issues with the alternator, the vette accesories mount the alternator on the high driverside. S&P makes a lot of bracket configurations as well. The alternator cleared my Wayne Due [www.waynedue.com] just fine.
Throttle Cable : Lokar makes a cable-type pedal to replace the original rod-type. They also sell a LS1 throttle cable. Otherwise I've hear you can use the stock LS1 cable and a gas pedal from an 87 Monte Carlo. You can weld the part of the Monte pedal where the cable would attach to it onto the original firstgen pedal and then use a washer as a retaining clip to mount the stock ls1 cable to the firewall. Ask Barry at ARE about this, I beleive he's did it one his car (am I right Barry??).
Fuel System : This has been discussed quite a bit on the forum and there are many options. The stock LS1 set-up (except 98-2000 vette I think) has the fuel pressure regulator in the back near the gas tank. The pump is intank and has a feed to the regulator. Also there is a short return line from the regulator back to the tank in the back of the 4th gen or vette. There is then a single feedline to the fuel rails. You can use pretty much any EFI pump/regulator set-up or use the stock stuff. The fuel pressure should be 58 psi. Rock Valley [www.rockvalleyantiqueautoparts.com] can modify your tank to use an intank EFI pump. Another option is to modify the fuel rails to use a return line and AN fittings. Check the external and internal engine forums for info on shops doing this. LS1 Speed [www.ls1speed.com] also sells some billet fuel ls1 fuel rails that'll support whatever horsepower you modify the LS1 to make. You can use an external pump and set-up the fuel system like this... sump from fuel cell -> external pump -> y-block -> fuel rails -> fuel pressure regulator -> return line to tank. This is how I'm doing it because I don't want to have to upgrade the fuel system when I modify the motor.
Electric Fans : There are many electric fans out there for old camaros / hotrods so this shouldn't be a problem. Mouting the stock LS1 fan to your existing radiator is an option.
Gauges : You can mount another water temp sending unit on the passenger side head towards the rear. You just need an adapter because the head is metric. Also, if you have a F-body LS1, right above the oil filter is a weird little plate that you can take off and tap for an oil pressure sending unit. Tach and Speedomoter you should be able to take from the PCM and T56. Check out [http://www.xse.com/leres/ss/gaugepod.html]. Whoever modifies your wiring harness can bring out the speedo/tach signals. I'd suggest using an aftermarket eletric speedo, otherwise you'll need an electric-to-mechanical signal adapter. I think one the aftermarket gauge manufacterers make a unit (VDO?).
I hope that helps. That's the info that I've either read or experienced since I started the swap.
I noted "stock frame" in a lot of places because since I am not using the stock frame so it complicates a few things. 1) There are no long tube headers that will fit a Wayne Due frame/LS1 combo. I am making my own. 2) There is also no t56 transmission crossmember that will fit this frame. I am going to make one similar to what DSE did on the thrasher. 3)I also had to notch my S&P motor mount adapter plates about 1/4" on a CNC machine so the motor would fit in the frame.
- Jeremy
Good to hear from another camaro nut in the norcal (I'm in Santa Clara). There are quite a few options to address with the LS1/T56 swap, and a lot of shops making parts to help with the swap. If you stick with the stock frame I think you can purchase all the the parts to get the motor in and running without any fabrication.
Motor Mounts : LS1 mounts are different then the old small block style. Speed & Performance [www.hotrodlane.cc] makes a set of adapter plates ($100) that bolt to the block and allow you to bolt the old sbc mounts to them. I'm using these on my project. (I had to modify them because I'm not using the stock subframe)
Trannsmission Crossmember : Tyler Beauregard [http://www.pro-touring.com/t56/index.htm] make a crossmember that will work with the T56 and stock firstgen subframe.
OilPan : I've heard the rear steering linkage of the firstgen f-body's will hit the ls1 oilpan when you turn. Speed and Performance can modify your oilpan to do this. Also, the LS1 uses a few different oil pans depending what car the motor came out of. You want the camaro/firebird pan (as opposed to the vette or truck).
Headers: Again for the stock frame, Stainlessworks [www.stainlessworks.net]and Speed & Performance make headers that should work. If you use the stock exhaust manifolds you will need to grind the driver side a little to clear the steering box.
Clutch : The clutch is hydrualic and you need to mount the clutch master cylinder to the firewall and attach the pushrod to the stock (firstgen) clutch pedal. Tyler Beauregard includes this bracket in his kit for T56 swaps.
Wiring/Computer/VATS : There are a lot of places that will modify your harness and computer. Some that come to mind are Speartech [http://www.speartech.com/] and Speed & Performance. If you are comfortable with wiringand can read a schematic than a set of service manuals will set you back about $120 and you could rewire it yourself. I did it myself, but sometimes wonder if the time I spent was worth the money I saved.
Accessories : I think the LS1 AC Compressor will hit the firstgen subframe. So either relocate it with a bracket or notch the subframe. I'm not sure about the alternator. If you aren't using the AC and are having clearance issues with the alternator, the vette accesories mount the alternator on the high driverside. S&P makes a lot of bracket configurations as well. The alternator cleared my Wayne Due [www.waynedue.com] just fine.
Throttle Cable : Lokar makes a cable-type pedal to replace the original rod-type. They also sell a LS1 throttle cable. Otherwise I've hear you can use the stock LS1 cable and a gas pedal from an 87 Monte Carlo. You can weld the part of the Monte pedal where the cable would attach to it onto the original firstgen pedal and then use a washer as a retaining clip to mount the stock ls1 cable to the firewall. Ask Barry at ARE about this, I beleive he's did it one his car (am I right Barry??).
Fuel System : This has been discussed quite a bit on the forum and there are many options. The stock LS1 set-up (except 98-2000 vette I think) has the fuel pressure regulator in the back near the gas tank. The pump is intank and has a feed to the regulator. Also there is a short return line from the regulator back to the tank in the back of the 4th gen or vette. There is then a single feedline to the fuel rails. You can use pretty much any EFI pump/regulator set-up or use the stock stuff. The fuel pressure should be 58 psi. Rock Valley [www.rockvalleyantiqueautoparts.com] can modify your tank to use an intank EFI pump. Another option is to modify the fuel rails to use a return line and AN fittings. Check the external and internal engine forums for info on shops doing this. LS1 Speed [www.ls1speed.com] also sells some billet fuel ls1 fuel rails that'll support whatever horsepower you modify the LS1 to make. You can use an external pump and set-up the fuel system like this... sump from fuel cell -> external pump -> y-block -> fuel rails -> fuel pressure regulator -> return line to tank. This is how I'm doing it because I don't want to have to upgrade the fuel system when I modify the motor.
Electric Fans : There are many electric fans out there for old camaros / hotrods so this shouldn't be a problem. Mouting the stock LS1 fan to your existing radiator is an option.
Gauges : You can mount another water temp sending unit on the passenger side head towards the rear. You just need an adapter because the head is metric. Also, if you have a F-body LS1, right above the oil filter is a weird little plate that you can take off and tap for an oil pressure sending unit. Tach and Speedomoter you should be able to take from the PCM and T56. Check out [http://www.xse.com/leres/ss/gaugepod.html]. Whoever modifies your wiring harness can bring out the speedo/tach signals. I'd suggest using an aftermarket eletric speedo, otherwise you'll need an electric-to-mechanical signal adapter. I think one the aftermarket gauge manufacterers make a unit (VDO?).
I hope that helps. That's the info that I've either read or experienced since I started the swap.
I noted "stock frame" in a lot of places because since I am not using the stock frame so it complicates a few things. 1) There are no long tube headers that will fit a Wayne Due frame/LS1 combo. I am making my own. 2) There is also no t56 transmission crossmember that will fit this frame. I am going to make one similar to what DSE did on the thrasher. 3)I also had to notch my S&P motor mount adapter plates about 1/4" on a CNC machine so the motor would fit in the frame.
- Jeremy
