LS1 Cranks, but doesn't start
I'll send you the bin file later tonight (I'm at work right now)
We set HPT on Dashboard, and the only virtual guage not displaying anything is the tach.
We did check the grounds and power leads listed on his documentaiton (I think it's pins 1, 40 & 60 on each PCM connector. Not sure without looking at a manual.
We didn't pull the large plug that attaches to the coil pack rail and splits out to the coil packs itself to see if it has power, we checked it on the other side, so that's something we need to check. (We both have the same 2000 manual which has crappy wiring diagrams. I think it's the Haynes.)
We set HPT on Dashboard, and the only virtual guage not displaying anything is the tach.
We did check the grounds and power leads listed on his documentaiton (I think it's pins 1, 40 & 60 on each PCM connector. Not sure without looking at a manual.
We didn't pull the large plug that attaches to the coil pack rail and splits out to the coil packs itself to see if it has power, we checked it on the other side, so that's something we need to check. (We both have the same 2000 manual which has crappy wiring diagrams. I think it's the Haynes.)
Originally Posted by Ouija
We set HPT on Dashboard, and the only virtual guage not displaying anything is the tach.
if the PCM never sees that the engine is turning, its never going to fire anything...
check the crank sensor to PCM connector wires.
pull the crank sensor and look it over for damage.
if you can, swap it with a known good sensor..
afterward, you'll probly want to do a CASE relearn... but thats once its running.
TECH Enthusiast
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From: Detroit, MI - Camp Pendleton, CA
Yeah if youre not recieving a crank trigger from the sensor you will have no spark.
The reason for your injectors spraying is because your injector is pulling a ground through the test light. Make sure you have a constant 12v and a breaking ground which is the signal off the PCM. Mr. dude is right just use a noid light.
You need to break it down and start eliminating problems. You can't keep jumping arund from a problem to the next because you lose track of what you checked and it gets confusing.
So, Do you have spark? Do you have fuel? Run a compression test - do you have compression?
-Alex
The reason for your injectors spraying is because your injector is pulling a ground through the test light. Make sure you have a constant 12v and a breaking ground which is the signal off the PCM. Mr. dude is right just use a noid light.
You need to break it down and start eliminating problems. You can't keep jumping arund from a problem to the next because you lose track of what you checked and it gets confusing.
So, Do you have spark? Do you have fuel? Run a compression test - do you have compression?
-Alex
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
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From: Austin, Tx
Update:
Tonight it started making noise. Its getting fuel and spark now. The crank sensor wasnt plugged in
Anywho, plugged in the sensor, gave it a few cranks and it started, but I killed it cause I wanted to check some stuff.
I then fired it up again later, it ran for a couple seconds, made a few minor backfire sounds, and then bogged down until it died. I still need to check a few things like fuel pressure, and get the vacuum lines hooked up before I figure out why its not staying running at this time.
Huge thanks to Todd and MrDude for helping out on this.
Does anyone have a good vacuum diagram for the 2000? My Haynes doesnt have it and the local places are out of the Chiltons.
Tonight it started making noise. Its getting fuel and spark now. The crank sensor wasnt plugged in
Anywho, plugged in the sensor, gave it a few cranks and it started, but I killed it cause I wanted to check some stuff.
I then fired it up again later, it ran for a couple seconds, made a few minor backfire sounds, and then bogged down until it died. I still need to check a few things like fuel pressure, and get the vacuum lines hooked up before I figure out why its not staying running at this time.
Huge thanks to Todd and MrDude for helping out on this.
Does anyone have a good vacuum diagram for the 2000? My Haynes doesnt have it and the local places are out of the Chiltons.
Originally Posted by StevenK
Update:
Tonight it started making noise. Its getting fuel and spark now. The crank sensor wasnt plugged in
Anywho, plugged in the sensor, gave it a few cranks and it started, but I killed it cause I wanted to check some stuff.
I then fired it up again later, it ran for a couple seconds, made a few minor backfire sounds, and then bogged down until it died. I still need to check a few things like fuel pressure, and get the vacuum lines hooked up before I figure out why its not staying running at this time.
Huge thanks to Todd and MrDude for helping out on this.
Does anyone have a good vacuum diagram for the 2000? My Haynes doesnt have it and the local places are out of the Chiltons.
Tonight it started making noise. Its getting fuel and spark now. The crank sensor wasnt plugged in
Anywho, plugged in the sensor, gave it a few cranks and it started, but I killed it cause I wanted to check some stuff.
I then fired it up again later, it ran for a couple seconds, made a few minor backfire sounds, and then bogged down until it died. I still need to check a few things like fuel pressure, and get the vacuum lines hooked up before I figure out why its not staying running at this time.
Huge thanks to Todd and MrDude for helping out on this.
Does anyone have a good vacuum diagram for the 2000? My Haynes doesnt have it and the local places are out of the Chiltons.
on the back of the manifold, theres one large fitting. its for the brake booster.
under that there is a small fitting with one of the nylon vac hoses in it.
theres a checkvalve close to it, and then it leads to the HVAC system to operate the air doors and such.
on the front, drivers side of the manifold, theres the EVAP hookup. this normally is connected to a silinoid mounted on the drivers side of the intake. if you take off the LS1 EVAP for your swap, you can cap this.
on the passenger side, theres two fittings, one on the manifold, and one on the throttlebody.this is for the PCV system.
the throttlebody one feeds fresh air to the crankcase.
the manifold one pulls contaminated air from the crankcase.
look at the attached pic for the PCV setup.
Steven,
I know you put a new camshaft in that engine prior to swapping it but the PCM hasn't been tuned for that. Thus, the new cam you put in there may be *at least part of* the reason it won't keep an idle.
I believe it depends on the profile of the cam you went with, to determine if the current tune would keep it idling. I know the VE Table on that tune was modified prior to me getting a copy of it. I was told it had an "Ed wrong" tune in it. We had to crack the tunerlock, pull the VE, mesh it with a good bin file, then re-upload the modified bin. The previous owner liked the VE tune he had so I was instructed to keep that for him when I deleted the RO2, EGR, and set it for 4.10s.
I know you put a new camshaft in that engine prior to swapping it but the PCM hasn't been tuned for that. Thus, the new cam you put in there may be *at least part of* the reason it won't keep an idle.
I believe it depends on the profile of the cam you went with, to determine if the current tune would keep it idling. I know the VE Table on that tune was modified prior to me getting a copy of it. I was told it had an "Ed wrong" tune in it. We had to crack the tunerlock, pull the VE, mesh it with a good bin file, then re-upload the modified bin. The previous owner liked the VE tune he had so I was instructed to keep that for him when I deleted the RO2, EGR, and set it for 4.10s.
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (17)
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From: Detroit, MI - Camp Pendleton, CA
I say cranking with no crank sensor input but still having a cam sensor input flooded the engine out. Pull the plugs and either blow em out or get some new ones. A needed tune could also but part if the problem.
-Alex
-Alex
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Originally Posted by Slo_240sx
I say cranking with no crank sensor input but still having a cam sensor input flooded the engine out. Pull the plugs and either blow em out or get some new ones. A needed tune could also but part if the problem.
-Alex
-Alex
the cam sensor mearly tells it what pair of cyls its on... its a on/off deal.. it doesnt tell the computer anything about it spinning.
until that crank sensor was hooked up, his PCM was NEVER spraying any fuel, and it wasnt making any spark.
plus, if it was flooded, it wouldnt have started.
his problem currently is that he swapped cams, and hes not tuned for it.
normally after a cam swap, you either need a basic idle tune, or you start it, give it gas, start it, ect... until it "learns" enough to idle... of course this is dependant upon the cam size. lol.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
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From: Austin, Tx
its a 224/224 cam. If you want the specs I can get em to you.
Also has the ARE Stage 2 heads.
So once I get all teh vacuum hooked up, and radiator, etc. Just crank it, let it die, crank it, let it die, and it should learn enough to idle? Then have Todd bring the tuning laptop over and make the adjustments needed for the cam swap?
Silly question, do I need to have him do the cam relearn that I've read about elsewhere on the board?
Also has the ARE Stage 2 heads.
So once I get all teh vacuum hooked up, and radiator, etc. Just crank it, let it die, crank it, let it die, and it should learn enough to idle? Then have Todd bring the tuning laptop over and make the adjustments needed for the cam swap?
Silly question, do I need to have him do the cam relearn that I've read about elsewhere on the board?
Originally Posted by StevenK
its a 224/224 cam. If you want the specs I can get em to you.
Also has the ARE Stage 2 heads.
So once I get all teh vacuum hooked up, and radiator, etc. Just crank it, let it die, crank it, let it die, and it should learn enough to idle? Then have Todd bring the tuning laptop over and make the adjustments needed for the cam swap?
Also has the ARE Stage 2 heads.
So once I get all teh vacuum hooked up, and radiator, etc. Just crank it, let it die, crank it, let it die, and it should learn enough to idle? Then have Todd bring the tuning laptop over and make the adjustments needed for the cam swap?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Tx
Cool, we got the same cam, how are you liking it? I'm hoping with my heads and headers it will be a happy little cam with plenty of vacuum to idle at stoplights.
Can't hold the pedal quite yet though, need to buy a 4th gen one still.... :-D
Can't hold the pedal quite yet though, need to buy a 4th gen one still.... :-D
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Tx
Rgr that, Once I get the vacuum lines hooked up, check the Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, and get the radiator mounted I'll feel more comfortable letting it run. For some odd reason my oil pressure never went up on the dash gauge, so either I forgot to hook it up, hooked it up wrong, or I'm not getting pressure...
The Oil Pressure Sender unit is at the back of the intake manifold screwed into the top of the engine.
Your wires were hooked to it, unless you unplugged it since I was there.
Those things are notorious for failing. I've gone through 3 now.
Make sure you didn't over torque it, which is the most common problem with the oil pressure gauge in LS1s. It's something silly like 18 ft lbs of torque.
People break them off all the time pulling the intake manifold. (That's what started my problem with them.)
Also make sure you are using the OPS Socket tool. They are like $5 at any parts store. It's something like a 21.5mm socket. With how often they fail, I'm happy I bought the tool.
If it has failed, skip the dealer (They are $65, whereas local stores carry them for $35 and there seems to be no quality difference, both failed within 6 months.)
Your wires were hooked to it, unless you unplugged it since I was there.
Those things are notorious for failing. I've gone through 3 now.
Make sure you didn't over torque it, which is the most common problem with the oil pressure gauge in LS1s. It's something silly like 18 ft lbs of torque.
People break them off all the time pulling the intake manifold. (That's what started my problem with them.)
Also make sure you are using the OPS Socket tool. They are like $5 at any parts store. It's something like a 21.5mm socket. With how often they fail, I'm happy I bought the tool.
If it has failed, skip the dealer (They are $65, whereas local stores carry them for $35 and there seems to be no quality difference, both failed within 6 months.)
I believe it is a one wire connection and the OPS grounds to the block.
If you look @ page 14 of this guide there is a picture of it.
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/PDFFILES/60biscayne.pdf
And this picture seems to show that it is only a single wire.
If you look @ page 14 of this guide there is a picture of it.
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/PDFFILES/60biscayne.pdf
And this picture seems to show that it is only a single wire.
you can also hook up a manual gauge where the sending unit is behind the intake. Just have to get the correct metric fitting, which I can't remember the specs off the top of my head. Did you ever mess with the oil pump or oring on the cam swap?