Which Plate vs which Header....Killing me!!
Which Plate vs which Header....Killing me!! I've spent hours reading through old posts of "what works with what". Nobody seems to have a concrete "X works with Y"!! I'm using Autokraft(same as ATS) Plates with 2 5/8 "wide" frame mounts. Reading through the 100's of posts and finding a post of someone using my mounts and hooker headers "without problems" prompted me to get the hooker's (
) from Summit. As I'm waiting for them to arrive I re-read only to see that the guy switched his steering to manual box!!!
It seems there's a million posts, but not one easy to read post on which mounts will work with hookers (don't want beat on them with a BFH either!), or don't use if you have "X" setup!
If I was talking about swapping into an exotic I'd understand not finding much, but it's a 69 F-Body!
The site's been great for the most part, but there's just a few things I know must've been done hundreds of times, yet I can't find anything conclusive.(need the warm fuzzy before ordering expensive parts)
) from Summit. As I'm waiting for them to arrive I re-read only to see that the guy switched his steering to manual box!!!It seems there's a million posts, but not one easy to read post on which mounts will work with hookers (don't want beat on them with a BFH either!), or don't use if you have "X" setup!
If I was talking about swapping into an exotic I'd understand not finding much, but it's a 69 F-Body!
The site's been great for the most part, but there's just a few things I know must've been done hundreds of times, yet I can't find anything conclusive.(need the warm fuzzy before ordering expensive parts)
Sounds like you may be on thw right track.
I spent all day making my own plates and getting the engine relocated on the subframe.
I'm doing a '69 Firebird and ran across the same deal here doing searches as to what works.
Part of the issue is there are different frame mounts on these car depending on the engine used. 327 and 350 cars had different frame mounts I believe. 350 may have shared the same mount as the 396/302 cars. More info on that on some of the other 1st gen specific sites. I think Davidd Pozzi has covered it in detail.
I bought the Stainless works headers, Carshop mount plates, and Autokraft pan. I initially had a modded F body pan, but the welders warped it and absolutely ruined it. Brand new GM pan too. Dumbarses.
The engine sat too low with the setup I had, so I ended up making a spacer under the driver side frame stand. The AutoKraft pan does not work with the stock steering using the Carshop mount plates. It will hit when you get near the locks on the steering.
I had to make my own engine plates to move the engine back about an inch. With my frame stand spacer, I doubted anybody elses mount plates would work perfect.
Today's pics
Prior to spacer and moving engine back 1".
I spent all day making my own plates and getting the engine relocated on the subframe.
I'm doing a '69 Firebird and ran across the same deal here doing searches as to what works.
Part of the issue is there are different frame mounts on these car depending on the engine used. 327 and 350 cars had different frame mounts I believe. 350 may have shared the same mount as the 396/302 cars. More info on that on some of the other 1st gen specific sites. I think Davidd Pozzi has covered it in detail.
I bought the Stainless works headers, Carshop mount plates, and Autokraft pan. I initially had a modded F body pan, but the welders warped it and absolutely ruined it. Brand new GM pan too. Dumbarses.
The engine sat too low with the setup I had, so I ended up making a spacer under the driver side frame stand. The AutoKraft pan does not work with the stock steering using the Carshop mount plates. It will hit when you get near the locks on the steering.
I had to make my own engine plates to move the engine back about an inch. With my frame stand spacer, I doubted anybody elses mount plates would work perfect.
Today's pics
Prior to spacer and moving engine back 1".
Thanks Jake! It feels good knowing that I'm not the only one spending countless hours trying to find the right combo!
If the setup doesn't work for me, I'll probably resort to the same thing you're doing. I'll move the engine to where it works, then make the mounts to fit around everything else.
I see you've cut the notch for A/C. I'd love to see pics once you install
Bob
If the setup doesn't work for me, I'll probably resort to the same thing you're doing. I'll move the engine to where it works, then make the mounts to fit around everything else.
I see you've cut the notch for A/C. I'd love to see pics once you install
Bob
Not sure which car platform you are using. I built my own BRP style mount and then relocated the perches on the frame. I did this to accommodate the edelbrock headers and the stock AC compressor and the driveshaft that I was running behind my TKO transmission with the big block. It took me a weekend to get it figured out.
It is worth it to make it fit correctly.
It is worth it to make it fit correctly.
His car is a 69 F-Body.. so Camaro or Firebird.
There are different problem anytime you mix and match swap parts. Either you select the parts (different oil pan, headers and adapter plates) you want to use and then work with making everything fit or work. Or you buy a complete package from one Vendor.
Since you have different parts, You will just have to do the trial and error part until you find everything fitting and working.. Different engine mounts, plates, stands and spacer used for different combo will get you there sooner or later.
Good Luck and keep us posted on your project.
There are different problem anytime you mix and match swap parts. Either you select the parts (different oil pan, headers and adapter plates) you want to use and then work with making everything fit or work. Or you buy a complete package from one Vendor.
Since you have different parts, You will just have to do the trial and error part until you find everything fitting and working.. Different engine mounts, plates, stands and spacer used for different combo will get you there sooner or later.
Good Luck and keep us posted on your project.
add in the possible suspension/steering parts changes and it's a big jigsaw puzzle
if you can make your own spacers I think you're better off
good luck on the 'bird, trying to finish my Cam (hookers, carshop plates [1" back] having a co-worker cut up my f-body pan) so I can start my own 'bird
if you can make your own spacers I think you're better off
good luck on the 'bird, trying to finish my Cam (hookers, carshop plates [1" back] having a co-worker cut up my f-body pan) so I can start my own 'bird
Last edited by fast; Jul 22, 2008 at 02:24 PM.
I have a 1968 Firebird, 2001 LS1, t56 6 speed. I used these frame mounts (hard to see) and Hooker ceramic coated headers with ATS plates and here is the kind of clearence i had. No problems at all getting them in, dropped them both in from the top of the engine. I dented the header primary just for extra clearence.
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I'm a bit late to the show....but.
I've searched and searched for conclusive comments / results regarding what combination works. So far....nadda.
I'm in the Embryo stage of swapping an LS2 & T56, into a 69 Camaro.
Hedder fitment appears to be a HUGE issue.
A few questions:
Can anyone supply the correct Body Mounts and Motor Mounts along with a set of matching Hedders?
Id like to do this job once and only once. No dimpling of Hedder Tubes or cussing and screaming because of clearance issues.
Thanks.
I've searched and searched for conclusive comments / results regarding what combination works. So far....nadda.
I'm in the Embryo stage of swapping an LS2 & T56, into a 69 Camaro.
Hedder fitment appears to be a HUGE issue.
A few questions:
Can anyone supply the correct Body Mounts and Motor Mounts along with a set of matching Hedders?
Id like to do this job once and only once. No dimpling of Hedder Tubes or cussing and screaming because of clearance issues.
Thanks.
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I'm a bit late to the show....but.
I've searched and searched for conclusive comments / results regarding what combination works. So far....nadda.
I'm in the Embryo stage of swapping an LS2 & T56, into a 69 Camaro.
Hedder fitment appears to be a HUGE issue.
A few questions:
Can anyone supply the correct Body Mounts and Motor Mounts along with a set of matching Hedders?
Id like to do this job once and only once. No dimpling of Hedder Tubes or cussing and screaming because of clearance issues.
Thanks.
I've searched and searched for conclusive comments / results regarding what combination works. So far....nadda.
I'm in the Embryo stage of swapping an LS2 & T56, into a 69 Camaro.
Hedder fitment appears to be a HUGE issue.
A few questions:
Can anyone supply the correct Body Mounts and Motor Mounts along with a set of matching Hedders?
Id like to do this job once and only once. No dimpling of Hedder Tubes or cussing and screaming because of clearance issues.
Thanks.
i've been looking on and off for almost 2 months.. and now i'm finaly getting ready to start ordering parts so the last couple days i've spent hours searching and no conclusive answers yet?... i'd be willing to keep the truck manifolds for a while and just get the correct mounts and oil pan, but i would like the parts i get to be compatible with some type of off the shelf headers when i do decide to upgrade.. also i'm doing this swap on a TIGHT budget so if i don't have to spend $500 for a kit that is designed around a pan that hangs down way to low to begin with, or a kit that was designed using some pricey aftermarket pan.. then that just leaves me more cash for the parts i will have to get.
I swapped a 6.0 truck motor into my 68 convertible. I used the hooker plates with the hooker headers. I don't know what type of frame or motor mounts I'm running but there is a picture for referance. The other picture, as bad as it is shows how much room there is between the headers and the steering box with this set up. I did not have to modify anything. Oil pan and suspension cleared everything.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Ventura, Ca
What most guys don't realize is that not only the motor mounts were different but the hats themselves were also. They made tall and short ones. The 327's and I believe the big block are the tall ones which is what everyone is after. The BRP kit locates the mount pin hole in the tall hat location. I went with the BRP kit because I wanted to use the stock accessories in the stock location. I also wanted to use stainless headers. After the motor was in I picked up some SW headers and they did not fit at all so you are literally at the mercy of trying to figure out what works. The ironic thing here is that the header manufacturers are all touting their mount/header kits. I believe most guys decide on the mouting they want first then the headers come due to all the variables. If I had to do it over again I would probably go with a CTS pan pushed back enough to clear the center link. I have about 1-1.5 inches that I could move the motor back right now so I think I could do both. After the SW header problem I compared all the LS stainless header pics I could find to what I had and ordered some Kooks TBSS headers and they fit clearing everything. They would work fine for motors pushed back from the BRP location also.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...l#post10345900
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...l#post10345900
I running a Tremec 5 speed. I snapped this pic right after I got the motor in while the hood was off to show how much room I had between the firewall. If you would pardon my rats nest of wires this may give you an idea of where the hooker plates set the motor.
The BRP kit locates the mount pin hole in the tall hat location. I went with the BRP kit because I wanted to use the stock accessories in the stock location. I also wanted to use stainless headers. After the motor was in I picked up some SW headers and they did not fit at all so you are literally at the mercy of trying to figure out what works.
If I had to do it over again I would probably go with a CTS pan pushed back enough to clear the center link. I have about 1-1.5 inches that I could move the motor back right now so I think I could do both. After the SW header problem I compared all the LS stainless header pics I could find to what I had and ordered some Kooks TBSS headers and they fit clearing everything. They would work fine for motors pushed back from the BRP location also.
i called edelbrock and they used the cts-v pan for mock up on there design, so with there mounts that pan will fit without any problems.. so i'm going with them or hooker (use's Fbody)once i get some more deatils..
If your looking for info on the Short/Wide vs the Tall Narrow.. EnergySuspesion has a good write up.
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/mt_tr1.html
By using different compones, you can come up with a different height for the placement of the engine. I ended up using Tall and Narrow Mounts, but modifed my Short and Wide frame mount to get the engine height were it worked for me.
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/mt_tr1.html
By using different compones, you can come up with a different height for the placement of the engine. I ended up using Tall and Narrow Mounts, but modifed my Short and Wide frame mount to get the engine height were it worked for me.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Ventura, Ca
I went with the BRP kit for a bolt on pan using stock accessories. I have had my car for about 12 years now and I learned a few things over the years running a TPI on it. I did not want relocated accessories was a lesson learned. It can become expensive and a pain in the a$$ and they never work as well as the stocks. Some people bash the kit and Phil but he is a straight up guy to deal with even if you don't like everything he does, his thinking is in the right place.
I specifically held out for stainless headers after my set of coated Hookers rusted through from the inside after 4 years and 15k miles. When you are spending $500-$600 for a set of headers and they don't last you will be pissed. Spending and extra few hundred after that amount to me is nothing. You do not want any holes in your exhaust with a EFI car. I would have bought a set from BRP but they did not have the stainless option at the time and it was holding me up.
I have found right now that I can move the motor back another 1-1.5 inches and it seems that nobody talks about raising the motor. Once my car is done I may end up moving the motor back and up about a inch in either direction but it will require shortening the driveshaft also. I am thinking of welding steel sleeves to mount the motor mounts to instead of running the bolts backwards and using recessed heads on the plates. The TBSS headers will clear with no problems. Keep in mind this is an automatic car. I believe that the manual tranny guys want to keep the motors as low as possible to keep from having to hack up the tunnel.
I specifically held out for stainless headers after my set of coated Hookers rusted through from the inside after 4 years and 15k miles. When you are spending $500-$600 for a set of headers and they don't last you will be pissed. Spending and extra few hundred after that amount to me is nothing. You do not want any holes in your exhaust with a EFI car. I would have bought a set from BRP but they did not have the stainless option at the time and it was holding me up.
I have found right now that I can move the motor back another 1-1.5 inches and it seems that nobody talks about raising the motor. Once my car is done I may end up moving the motor back and up about a inch in either direction but it will require shortening the driveshaft also. I am thinking of welding steel sleeves to mount the motor mounts to instead of running the bolts backwards and using recessed heads on the plates. The TBSS headers will clear with no problems. Keep in mind this is an automatic car. I believe that the manual tranny guys want to keep the motors as low as possible to keep from having to hack up the tunnel.
Last edited by 69 Ghost; Feb 9, 2009 at 11:24 PM.
