Put gas in, still on Empty?!
08-03-2009, 07:30 PM
#1
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Put gas in, still on Empty?! This morning I put about $20 in my car ('04 C5, 40K miles) and when I turned it on, it read right for about 3-4 miles, then went to below Empty. When I checked the Range, it didn't provide any information.
Any one have any ideas? It's driven ok, but I don't exactly want to be stranded. I put some more gas in it (2 gallons) just a few minutes ago and same thing, no dice.
Thanks!
Grant
Any one have any ideas? It's driven ok, but I don't exactly want to be stranded. I put some more gas in it (2 gallons) just a few minutes ago and same thing, no dice.
Thanks!
Grant
08-03-2009, 07:38 PM
#2
Used to be a bulletin for older C5's for a sending unit pcm reflash.
Either that, or more then likely, you had a sending unit failure. Which, may be a pain in the *** to change on your fuel setup. That, or your having a PCM or data/power/ground failure.
Either that, or more then likely, you had a sending unit failure. Which, may be a pain in the *** to change on your fuel setup. That, or your having a PCM or data/power/ground failure.
08-03-2009, 09:10 PM
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As far as the techron fuel cleaner, how exactly might that help? Not being facetious, just curious?
Thank you both.
08-03-2009, 09:27 PM
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08-03-2009, 09:41 PM
#6
Never tried the above mentioned product but, we do similar things at work on customer cars using probably a similar product but,...this is what I found,...possibly related to your issue.
#05-06-04-041A: Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor) - (Nov 9, 2005)
Subject: Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor)
Models: 2004-2005 Cadillac XLR
2003 Chevrolet Corvette (Built After December 2002)
2004-2005 Chevrolet Corvette
Built Prior to December 2004
Attention: For the 2003 Chevrolet Corvette, this bulletin only applies to vehicles with the FFS fuel system.
This bulletin is being revised to correct an add condition within the Warranty Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-041 (Section 06 -- Engine).
Condition
Some customers may comment that the fuel gauge is erratic or reads empty when there is fuel in the tank. Also, the driver information center may display "Service Fuel System."
Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0463 set.
Cause
This condition may be due to the following causes:
• The sender card has insufficient ink and looses electrical contact when the tank is over filled.
• Loose or poor connections at the PCM.
Correction
Check the connections at the PCM/ECM using the proper pin drag test. Use care to select the proper pin for testing. Refer to PCM/ECM Connector End Views in SI in order to identify the correct pin. If all connections check good, then replace the left fuel tank level sensor with P/N 88967316. Refer to the Left Fuel Level Sensor Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls sub-section of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #1398504 [Corvette] or Document ID #976863 [XLR]).
Right fuel tank senders are rarely faulty and should only be replaced if diagnostic information specifically indicates replacement of the right fuel tank sender or a DTC P2068 is present.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
88967316
Sensor Kit, Fuel Level (LH)
#05-06-04-041A: Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor) - (Nov 9, 2005)
Subject: Erratic Fuel Gauge Readings, Fuel Gauge Reads Empty When There Is Fuel In Tank, DTC P0463 Set, Service Fuel System Message Displayed (Replace Left Fuel Tank Level Sensor)
Models: 2004-2005 Cadillac XLR
2003 Chevrolet Corvette (Built After December 2002)
2004-2005 Chevrolet Corvette
Built Prior to December 2004
Attention: For the 2003 Chevrolet Corvette, this bulletin only applies to vehicles with the FFS fuel system.
This bulletin is being revised to correct an add condition within the Warranty Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-041 (Section 06 -- Engine).
Condition
Some customers may comment that the fuel gauge is erratic or reads empty when there is fuel in the tank. Also, the driver information center may display "Service Fuel System."
Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0463 set.
Cause
This condition may be due to the following causes:
• The sender card has insufficient ink and looses electrical contact when the tank is over filled.
• Loose or poor connections at the PCM.
Correction
Check the connections at the PCM/ECM using the proper pin drag test. Use care to select the proper pin for testing. Refer to PCM/ECM Connector End Views in SI in order to identify the correct pin. If all connections check good, then replace the left fuel tank level sensor with P/N 88967316. Refer to the Left Fuel Level Sensor Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls sub-section of the Service Manual (SI Document ID #1398504 [Corvette] or Document ID #976863 [XLR]).
Right fuel tank senders are rarely faulty and should only be replaced if diagnostic information specifically indicates replacement of the right fuel tank sender or a DTC P2068 is present.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
88967316
Sensor Kit, Fuel Level (LH)
08-03-2009, 09:47 PM
#7
So, do you have any dtc's, any warning indicator? And when was your car built? Shoot me a pm of the vin tonight, or simply look inside the drivers side door for the build date. Should be a white or silver decal, with VIN number,and a date, probably on top right area of that decal.
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08-03-2009, 10:02 PM
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So, do you have any dtc's, any warning indicator? And when was your car built? Shoot me a pm of the vin tonight, or simply look inside the drivers side door for the build date. Should be a white or silver decal, with VIN number,and a date, probably on top right area of that decal.
Thanks.
08-03-2009, 10:47 PM
#9
I have an 00,...and I have a similar issue. I do have a sending unit issue myself but, completely diferent, and very very easy to fix on my year.
Your year however,...I think 03 and up,...really sucks when it comes to fuel pump alterations, or in this case, fixing a sending unit issue. Reason being, my fuel hat, is easily removed by removing one inner fender, and removing the hat, right there,...all nice any easy.
The 03 and up vettes and xlr cars have a different style fuel system. It sucks to work on. Gm wants you to remove exhaust and tranny out of way. Once you do that or figure out another way, you have to look up, at the crossover tube that goes into the drivers side saddle tank, and remove the fastener/retainer. I believe it's plastic. Long screw driver, slide/pop that off. It will not remove off the hose, you just twist it to unlock it, and it will slide back, out of way. Then, O, yes, an empty tank would make this job easier.
Then, once you get the retainer off,.. you you'll have to,...yes, this is te shitkicker fun part that makes me hate this setup.
YOu need to, look underneath car, look at the saddle tank on the driver side, face the front of the car, take your right hand, grab the fitting that goes into the drivers side tank,.... and compress the accordine crossfire pipe.....towards the pasengers side
This is crucial, because there are two pipes INSIDE the crossover pipe, both have o-rings. They shouldn' come off but,...highly recomend great care in checking. This is a very tough step, requires some strength as it's a zero leverage situation, leaving you to pretty much forearm,wrist, and hand strength. Not to mention, excellent cussing skills. If done right, your face should be firmily planted against the botttom of the framerail.
Got it out?....sweet, your a champ,... now careful, don't drop that tank thats no longer being supported. Lol. The emptier the better. Then,...take a break, have a drink, smoke a joint, take a walk,..fandangle the vag,....whatever you do to ease your mind. Then,....new sending unit in reach,...get comfortable,,.....remove the fuel hat, either a hammer and brass rift or another flatbladed tool.....or something.
Once thats out,...this is a fun part. You MAY be able to use tiny munchkin fingers and some how easily, smoothly, remove the fuel card/sendin unit. This is the devise with the steel rod and bobber/floater attached to it.
Listen, if you have to take out the pump assembly, it is very dificult to put back in. Those two hoses that go through the fuel tank crossover, have another end, which is inside the drivers tank. Very difficult to fish these back in. Very. I'd use twine or string or something.
Once thats all in,...reverse process,.......being super careful joing the accordine crossover pipe back with the tank. You'll end up haveing to twist it, the top towards you, or the back of the car getting it OFF and ON.
Whew. If the tranny is out,...its easier to do. But, I have never removed a tranny for that job. It's a painful job,... but it feels good when its done. I do them faster now but,...I hate it.
Ps. If your going into the tank,...I recommend a professional and a fuel pump upgrade while your in there.
08-03-2009, 11:21 PM
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disclaimer:This is a Serious job for an experienced person. I have seen techs screw this up,...which is why I usually have to be the one to work on the cars when they have a fuel related issue. Every part of this particular job sucks on this car. I just want to tell you that. And anyone else that wants to try this.
I have an 00,...and I have a similar issue. I do have a sending unit issue myself but, completely diferent, and very very easy to fix on my year.
Your year however,...I think 03 and up,...really sucks when it comes to fuel pump alterations, or in this case, fixing a sending unit issue. Reason being, my fuel hat, is easily removed by removing one inner fender, and removing the hat, right there,...all nice any easy.
The 03 and up vettes and xlr cars have a different style fuel system. It sucks to work on. Gm wants you to remove exhaust and tranny out of way. Once you do that or figure out another way, you have to look up, at the crossover tube that goes into the drivers side saddle tank, and remove the fastener/retainer. I believe it's plastic. Long screw driver, slide/pop that off. It will not remove off the hose, you just twist it to unlock it, and it will slide back, out of way. Then, O, yes, an empty tank would make this job easier.
Then, once you get the retainer off,.. you you'll have to,...yes, this is te shitkicker fun part that makes me hate this setup.
YOu need to, look underneath car, look at the saddle tank on the driver side, face the front of the car, take your right hand, grab the fitting that goes into the drivers side tank,.... and compress the accordine crossfire pipe.....towards the pasengers side
This is crucial, because there are two pipes INSIDE the crossover pipe, both have o-rings. They shouldn' come off but,...highly recomend great care in checking. This is a very tough step, requires some strength as it's a zero leverage situation, leaving you to pretty much forearm,wrist, and hand strength. Not to mention, excellent cussing skills. If done right, your face should be firmily planted against the botttom of the framerail.
Got it out?....sweet, your a champ,... now careful, don't drop that tank thats no longer being supported. Lol. The emptier the better. Then,...take a break, have a drink, smoke a joint, take a walk,..fandangle the vag,....whatever you do to ease your mind. Then,....new sending unit in reach,...get comfortable,,.....remove the fuel hat, either a hammer and brass rift or another flatbladed tool.....or something.
Once thats out,...this is a fun part. You MAY be able to use tiny munchkin fingers and some how easily, smoothly, remove the fuel card/sendin unit. This is the devise with the steel rod and bobber/floater attached to it.
Listen, if you have to take out the pump assembly, it is very dificult to put back in. Those two hoses that go through the fuel tank crossover, have another end, which is inside the drivers tank. Very difficult to fish these back in. Very. I'd use twine or string or something.
Once thats all in,...reverse process,.......being super careful joing the accordine crossover pipe back with the tank. You'll end up haveing to twist it, the top towards you, or the back of the car getting it OFF and ON.
Whew. If the tranny is out,...its easier to do. But, I have never removed a tranny for that job. It's a painful job,... but it feels good when its done. I do them faster now but,...I hate it.
Ps. If your going into the tank,...I recommend a professional and a fuel pump upgrade while your in there.
I have an 00,...and I have a similar issue. I do have a sending unit issue myself but, completely diferent, and very very easy to fix on my year.
Your year however,...I think 03 and up,...really sucks when it comes to fuel pump alterations, or in this case, fixing a sending unit issue. Reason being, my fuel hat, is easily removed by removing one inner fender, and removing the hat, right there,...all nice any easy.
The 03 and up vettes and xlr cars have a different style fuel system. It sucks to work on. Gm wants you to remove exhaust and tranny out of way. Once you do that or figure out another way, you have to look up, at the crossover tube that goes into the drivers side saddle tank, and remove the fastener/retainer. I believe it's plastic. Long screw driver, slide/pop that off. It will not remove off the hose, you just twist it to unlock it, and it will slide back, out of way. Then, O, yes, an empty tank would make this job easier.
Then, once you get the retainer off,.. you you'll have to,...yes, this is te shitkicker fun part that makes me hate this setup.
YOu need to, look underneath car, look at the saddle tank on the driver side, face the front of the car, take your right hand, grab the fitting that goes into the drivers side tank,.... and compress the accordine crossfire pipe.....towards the pasengers side
This is crucial, because there are two pipes INSIDE the crossover pipe, both have o-rings. They shouldn' come off but,...highly recomend great care in checking. This is a very tough step, requires some strength as it's a zero leverage situation, leaving you to pretty much forearm,wrist, and hand strength. Not to mention, excellent cussing skills. If done right, your face should be firmily planted against the botttom of the framerail.
Got it out?....sweet, your a champ,... now careful, don't drop that tank thats no longer being supported. Lol. The emptier the better. Then,...take a break, have a drink, smoke a joint, take a walk,..fandangle the vag,....whatever you do to ease your mind. Then,....new sending unit in reach,...get comfortable,,.....remove the fuel hat, either a hammer and brass rift or another flatbladed tool.....or something.
Once thats out,...this is a fun part. You MAY be able to use tiny munchkin fingers and some how easily, smoothly, remove the fuel card/sendin unit. This is the devise with the steel rod and bobber/floater attached to it.
Listen, if you have to take out the pump assembly, it is very dificult to put back in. Those two hoses that go through the fuel tank crossover, have another end, which is inside the drivers tank. Very difficult to fish these back in. Very. I'd use twine or string or something.
Once thats all in,...reverse process,.......being super careful joing the accordine crossover pipe back with the tank. You'll end up haveing to twist it, the top towards you, or the back of the car getting it OFF and ON.
Whew. If the tranny is out,...its easier to do. But, I have never removed a tranny for that job. It's a painful job,... but it feels good when its done. I do them faster now but,...I hate it.
Ps. If your going into the tank,...I recommend a professional and a fuel pump upgrade while your in there.
By the way, thanks dude - you're one of the most helpful people I've ever came across on the internets.
08-03-2009, 11:39 PM
#11
lol.
No problem man. I understand access to alot of things just aren't as available to some people as it may be to myself or someone else in the feild. So,..why not help a brother out? People on this site, blownvette 2001 tony, all engine doug, onebadcad, and many many more have helped me out alot in the past.
I appreciate the site as well, and the ****'s in it. As gay as most of them are. Oncebadcad specifically.
Try the technomagic-go-go-juice in the tank. Hopefully that'll help your issue. It is very common to get fuel tank contaminates nowadays. We have all kinds of bulletins related to such, for various different vehicles. Good fuel, good fill stations have alot to do with it. We have seen ALOT of horsepower gained by using mobil 1 93 octane here in south florida on the dyno. so much that we have drained tanks of gas out, in favor for a better , more consistent 93 blend.
Anywho, hope it works out for you bro. Don't forget, if someone or yourself is gonna go inside the tank, upgrade the pump and save on future labor.
Peace out
No problem man. I understand access to alot of things just aren't as available to some people as it may be to myself or someone else in the feild. So,..why not help a brother out? People on this site, blownvette 2001 tony, all engine doug, onebadcad, and many many more have helped me out alot in the past.
I appreciate the site as well, and the ****'s in it. As gay as most of them are. Oncebadcad specifically.
Try the technomagic-go-go-juice in the tank. Hopefully that'll help your issue. It is very common to get fuel tank contaminates nowadays. We have all kinds of bulletins related to such, for various different vehicles. Good fuel, good fill stations have alot to do with it. We have seen ALOT of horsepower gained by using mobil 1 93 octane here in south florida on the dyno. so much that we have drained tanks of gas out, in favor for a better , more consistent 93 blend.
Anywho, hope it works out for you bro. Don't forget, if someone or yourself is gonna go inside the tank, upgrade the pump and save on future labor.
Peace out
08-04-2009, 10:54 AM
#13
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Damn J, That was one hell of a write up for the OP's question !!
I nominate it for a sticky !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank god I have a 2000. Like you said, very easy to get at. Remove the wheel, inner fender well and VIOLA !! Easy access to the pump. I watched Charlie at Vengeance do my upgrades. I'll be able to do the next one myself if need be.
I nominate it for a sticky !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank god I have a 2000. Like you said, very easy to get at. Remove the wheel, inner fender well and VIOLA !! Easy access to the pump. I watched Charlie at Vengeance do my upgrades. I'll be able to do the next one myself if need be.
08-05-2009, 07:48 PM
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If you're ever in D/FW area, let me know. I owe you a beer or 3.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
08-05-2009, 09:38 PM
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If you're ever in D/FW area, let me know. I owe you a beer or 3.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
08-05-2009, 09:42 PM
#16
If you're ever in D/FW area, let me know. I owe you a beer or 3.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
V-series - the same to you, since you're always helping.
Issue is fixed - poured some techron fuel cleaner I bought from wal-mart in, put 12 gallons as it stated - turned on my car and it's been working perfectly.
08-06-2009, 01:04 AM
#18
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You said it man. Not many fixes are quick, easy or cheap. At least this one was.
I actually had an issue with my guage not registering tonight. I simply shut the car off and after 5 seconds started it back up and she worked fine. No techron needed here. Then again I always use mobil, bp, exxon, or shell 93. They all seem to have some super duper special new and improved higher concentration additive. Whoopity doooo dah. At least they seem to make the car run great. Sorry I'm buzzing, just got in LOL
I actually had an issue with my guage not registering tonight. I simply shut the car off and after 5 seconds started it back up and she worked fine. No techron needed here. Then again I always use mobil, bp, exxon, or shell 93. They all seem to have some super duper special new and improved higher concentration additive. Whoopity doooo dah. At least they seem to make the car run great. Sorry I'm buzzing, just got in LOL
08-06-2009, 04:35 AM
#19
Really?! I don't use BP gas. Arco gas screwed up two of my cars' injectors, so I don't touch it anymore. One was a GM and one was a Toyota.
Now I only use top-tier gasoline. I stay away from Mobile because I don't like EXXON as a company, and I only fill up with Shell or Chevron. I put a bottle of GUMOUT, STP, or Techron in my tank once every 5-6 months. Aside from that, I don't need it... I'm not sure I even need it when I do put it in. The fuel here is 91, but it's also got 15% ethanol so that in itself cleans the fuel system as is.
Now I only use top-tier gasoline. I stay away from Mobile because I don't like EXXON as a company, and I only fill up with Shell or Chevron. I put a bottle of GUMOUT, STP, or Techron in my tank once every 5-6 months. Aside from that, I don't need it... I'm not sure I even need it when I do put it in. The fuel here is 91, but it's also got 15% ethanol so that in itself cleans the fuel system as is.