Greetings all. As you will plainly see I'm very new to this forum. I currently own a 1993 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo. The car has about $15k in mods (though stock long block) and runs (with me driving that is) 12.20s in street trim (and traps in the high teens). I've had the car for some time and really I'm ready to get rid of it in favor of a C5. The question is, which one? I've done some searching and reading but thought I'd ask if there is any particular model year that stands out as a "best" or if there is anything to watch out for. My intentions are to sink a fair amount of cash in the car in mods (heads, cam, exhaust, supercharger, fuel, etc). Anything in particular to look out for?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mark W.
1993 Dodge Stealth Turbo <-- it's for sale.

 

my favorite (what I'm lookin for right now) is a 99 black on black, M6, hard top, w/HUd, I want to make it into a Z06 clone and I'll have enough money to get the power I want if I get a used one instead of brand new, just need to sell my other toys first

 

Considering that you are low 12 second car now, only the Z06 would be familiar in acceleration feel of what you are driving. But when it comes to modding out the vehicles, and it comes to head and cam swapping, the Z06 does not offer that much more considering what you are going to do, so a coupe or hardtop might suit you better and save you more money for the modifications. Just make sure you get a 2001 or later model to get the ls6 intake, and larger mass airflow sensor, but if you are going to cube out the motor, then even that is not as important, just depends on how much you want to spend on the Corvette.

According to the post it looks like bolt on stuff, so the 2001 and later model will do. the Z06 really only has a better cam, airbox, exhaust and computer tune over the coupe model. The heads are the same. Oh yeah, the hardtop is stiffer overall, and the spring rates and swaybar rates are firmer also. The big benifit of the Z06 is the 3.42 gears it comes with, this will save you quite a bit of money compared to switching it from a 2.73 like me.

 

The Z06 is just a pure all around car. Great acceleration, handling, 1/4 mile, you name it. For the most part, its the best all around bang for the buck on the market. But, a coupe or FRC (fixed roof coupe - aka hardtop. What the Z06 was previous to getting the Z06 designation) isnt a bad deal by anymeans. You still get the same looks, and handling you're just missing out on all the LS6 goodies.

Personally, i'd rather have the Z06. But i dont see anything wrong w/ getting even a 97 - 99 coupe being they can be had for fairly cheap, and can be turned into amazing cars. Altho, i'd make sure the car doesnt have any piston slap issues, its not drinking oil, and the column lock bypass has been performed. I cant think of any other service issues (and cant really remember if the bypass is needed on all those years) but it doesnt hurt to have a heads up about it

 

i went from a 10 sec trans am to a bone stock c5 vert and i love the vette! there so many great things about it, i dont even miss the power that the trans am once had!

when i got mine, everyone was like "get the z06!". i wanted a removable top, and went looking for a coupe, but once i sat in the convertable, i knew it was for me!

 

By your list of mods any year C5 will be good.Just go by your spending budget and options you want.There is no need to get a Z06 if your doing a H/C unless you like the Z06 style.I've driven alot of C5's,reguler and Z06's.There is very little difference between the 2 on handling unless you road race on the edge,the Z06 tires are better.

 

The Z06 is WAAAAAAAAAAAY better if you can afford a Z06 dont buy a C5!! Just make sure its an 02+ Z06 because the 01s suck. The Z06 has way a better transmission than the C5. In stock Z06 form with the stock 3:42s the first too gears will accelerate faster than 3:73s on an fbody (i would say 1st gear is as fast as 3:90s on fbodies and C5s). But then 4th gear is equivalent to 3:42s on fbodies and C5s. Its an awesome tranny!

This car is for sale and seems very nice but Z06s are not cheap:
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...152#post653152

 

WAAAAAAY better? Nope. Mild heads, mild cam, different gearing, lighter windshield, and different suspension. If you want a very fast C5 that you don't want to mod, a Z06 is a great choice. If you're planning on modifying the car then I wouldn't bother. Aftermarket parts will almost always make more power and aftermarket suspension can be made to handle better. If you're a do it yourself type then you'll end up with more car with less money.

If you're on a budget I would look at a '99-'00. They can be had with Active Handling and are supported well by the aftermarket (97-98's can be hard to get tuning software for and the perimeter bolt valve covers can be a pain). If you can afford it an '01 will have some minor improvements and the LS6 intake + Z06 MAF. Keep in mind that the cost to add the majority of the '01+ parts is not that much.

 

Just to point out the obvious...a Z06 IS a C5.

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the coupe has a lower cd (coefficient of drag)rating. the coupes have a .29, and I believe the hardtop and convertables are .30.
not much in the overall scheme of things, but they do cut through the air just a tad bit better. the C6's are supposed to have a .28 cd.
what ever you choose, I'm sure you'll love. good luck.

 

If you were looking for a stock fast car I would recommend a 2002 or newer Z06 (405hp). But since you are prepared to go heads/cam/motor/whatever, I would recommend getting a cheap high mileage 99 or 00 FRC (fixed roof coupe) which can probably be had for under 20k.

If you want an automatic you are stuck to a coupe (targa top) or convertible.

 

Lower drag coefficient can be made up relatively quickly, especially when its just a hundredth. I believe its a combination of the screens and rear glass delete on the Z06 that limit it in aerodynamics altho it makes up for it in stock power.

I still would rather have the Z06, but drive one and see what fits you best!

 

Let me clear up a few things:

The Z06 has LS6 heads which are very different than LS1 heads. Look at heads on MTIs site and you will see there is a difference in flow rate and cost between stage 2 LS1 heads and stage 2 LS6 heads.
The main differences between the LS1 and LS6 is the MAF (descreened), heads (better flow rates), valve springs (higher spring rate), cam (high profile, more lift), valves (hollow stem), pistons (m142 aluminum and different profile),injectors (10% larger),and compression is higher. (LS1 comp-10.1:1, LS6 comp-10.5:1), also the block is different (cast in windows that allow better bay-to-bay breathing to prevent unwanted crankcase back pressure and thus less parasitic horsepower loss).
And the Z06 has a different rpo for the transmission (m12) because it is geared different in most of the gears.
Ls1/m6 LS6/m12
1st 2.66 2.97
2nd 1.78 2.07
3rd 1.30 1.43
4th 1.00 1.00
5th 0.74 0.84
6th 0.50 0.56
rev 2.90 3.28
Also the clutch for the LS6 is stronger to handle more power.
The Z06 also has a titanium cat back exhaust system that flows better.
The suspension is very different than a base model with the magnetic ride. The Z51 suspension is the way to go with a coupe or conv, the Z06 comes with the best set up from the factory (FE4). It is capable of over 1.0 lateral G , which even the Z51 suspension isn't capable of.
I've owned both and believe me they are different. The Z06 suspension FE4 rides rougher than the Z51 and there is more road noise.
The Z06 gets better tires:
LS1 / ----- -LS6
Eagle F1 GS/ ----Eagle F1 SC
front - p245/45zr17---- p265/40zr17
rear - p275/40zr18---- p295/35zr18

Those are the facts, make your decision based on facts.

Dean

 

Here is my 2 cents. Z06's are great cars 01 and up is the way to go. Stronger motor and better flowing air box. But if you want to mod I would purchase a 99 FRC. Same body same suspension but the transmission is different. I believe that the M12 has a higher gear ratio in the first two gears. I have seen the 99's going for as low as 20k, to me thats a good price for an all around great car. I have ran my car at the local drag tracks and have taken courses at Mid-Ohio and the car is a fabulous performer both off and on the track.

A fellow FRC owner has just strapped on a Procharger, non intercooled for $3250. He has completed the work at home and is going for a tune this week.
I am looking forward to seeing the results. We both run 12.90s now.

The LS1 is turning out to be a great power plant. Likely better than GM planned. The motor is putting down great power with H/C swaps, Blower apps and even nitrous is doing very well (managed properly).

Things to look out for. Interior, the driver seats bolster wear and tear easily from entry into the car. Rocking seat (drivers side) pre 01 years. Mechanics, Oil consumption issues on pre 00 cars. Steering cloumn lock failure pre 01, this can be fixed easily with a purchased electrical component. Piston slap not sure of applications of model years. Head bolt configuration, the 97-98 LS1's have a different bolt pattern than the 99 and later. This may not be an issue now, but later down the road the parts (head castings) may be harder to come bye. And the last thing to look out for is Mod fever, it can be pricy to cure. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

All good points made above. But the LS6 heads aren't a lot different than the LS1's. Yes stg2 LS6 heads will outflow stg2 LS1 heads. If you're caught up on the diffference then buy LS6 or the 6.0L truck heads. Compression is a little higher. Cheap aftermarket LS1 or 5.3L truck heads will boost it higher than the stock LS6 heads. Mine is 10.8 now (not a big deal really). Any LSx or truck heads can be made to get you the compression you want.

The LS6 cam is bigger than the stock LS1's. But its tiny. Any thread you read where someone asks about putting this cam in, the general consensus is don't bother. Even the mild aftermarket cams offer more lift and duration than the Z06 cam.

The clutch on all '01 and newer Vettes gets the revised unit as well as the hydraulics. F-bodies got it too. The FE4 and Z51 share the same front spring and I believe the rear Z51 springs are actually stiffer due to the weight difference. The big difference here is the tires. Any C5 owner who's switched away from the run craps will tell you there is a big difference. BFG had an ad about the KD's pulling over 1G on a Z51 coupe. It can be done with a tire swap. For a little money you can buy Z06 bars and shocks or get bigger/stiffer aftermarket pieces that will outperform them.

The Z06 titanium exhaust is lighter, but I'm not sure by how much it actually outflows the stock C5 exhaust (which flows quite well). Its a nice piece though. Sounds good and is light.

Bay to bay breathing on the LS6 may be a small advantage. Although I've seen threads where engine builders have expressed concerns over it weakening the block. I haven't seen any dyno's that show the blocks with the same modifications making different power. Honestly I don't see it being a plus or minus.

The M12 tranny is a nice option and probably my favorite Z06 piece (and on the GTO for that matter). You can add gears to a C5 and get there. But the M12 is great.

FRC vs. Coupe. Get whichever style you like better. The FRC's only real advantage is that they are all 6spd/Z51 cars (prior to the Z06). That can be tough to find on a coupe. But weight and stiffness wise, its a wash. My coupe weighed 315x with 3/4 of a tank at the strip. Unfortunately FRC's are fairly rare (they didn't sell well prior to the Z06) and can be hard to find. I would have liked a Black FRC when I got my car, but even finding a 6spd car locally took weeks.

The Z06 is the fastest factory Vette available. The package was put together to be meet emissions and CAFE requirements and to be able to be warrantied. Its a great package for someone who wants to buy a Vette and drive it. If you want to seriously modify the car you will end up replacing almost everything that makes a Z06 a Z06. So whether the Z06 is the right car depends on the goals you have for your Vette.

 

99C5JA,

I agree for the most part with what you said, but I wanted to clear up the fact that the heads ARE different and it is more than just a different intake and MAF, etc., and that the trannys only share the same fourth gear.
I owned a 03 coupe with the Z51 suspension until about 5 weeks ago, and I agree that the tires suck, but the suspension was real smooth compared to the FE4 on the Z06. In fact I miss the sport seats with the adjustable bolster and lumbar. The FRC would be my choice for a car to highly mod, but if you don't have the money up front, then the Z06 starts out running low 12s with a good driver and you can improve on that with a few mods here and there. I will end up doing exhaust next and a cam, but with the LS6 heads and larger injectors, I can get better results without a head change than a LS1. But at the end of the day, if you plan on changing everything then it doesn't matter much what you start with does it?

Dean

 

You will get great results with the LS6 heads and an aftermarket cam. Certainly better than LS1 heads and a cam (stock vs. stock). And you are right the LS1 and LS6 heads are different, I never said they weren't. I just said not much different (the LS6 heads are wee bit better at each level of porting too). I really wasn't bringing up the intake or MAF in my previous post. I was referring only to the cylinder heads themselves. All '01+ Vettes did get the LS6 intake and 85mm MAF to my knowledge. I think the only difference there is that the Z06 MAF is descreened. I'm pretty sure that is the case, I'm sure someone will chime in if I'm wrong.

And I should have been more clear about the tranny. The Z06 tranny is the M12 tranny that I was referring to (also used in the GTO). You can achieve much the same effect with rear gears on a C5, but its nice that the Z06 has it taken care of for you to begin with. No arguments there.

And although the springs are close between the Z51 and FE4 suspension, the shocks and bars aren't. That is likely the difference you're feeling. The Z06 is a really good balance between raw handling and ride quality. My lowered coupe with the Hotchkiss bars and Bilsteins is rougher yet. But I don't mind. Some folks certainly would.

So sorry if I wasn't as clear as I could have been 69Vette03. The choice of what C5 you get depends on your goals. A cheap FRC or Coupe to get you started or as platform for mods, a convertible to cruise in, or a Z06 for an out of the box performer. They're all great cars. You can't go wrong with any of them.

 

No problem, you weren't the one who said the heads were the same. If you read all of the post before yours, there were some misconceptions I wanted to clear up. There are in fact more differences than most people are aware of, but I had no problem with anything you said.

Dean