2 step and transbrake on a N/A application?
im not in a foot brake class...50% of the guys i race in my class are running transbrakes...usually that same 50% ends up in the top 3 places. we have the option of running a footbrake though. im running the SNS drag series 7.50 class here in the houston area.
i may need to check the book on the 2 step though.
i may need to check the book on the 2 step though.
Coach
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,713
Likes: 7
From: Humble Texas
The transbreak and 2 step work great together. When you put your tranny in 1 st gear and you push the TB Button it will put your tranny between 1st gear and reverse. You mash the gas and you can rev the motor as high as your converter will allow. This is where your 2 step comes in. You set your 2 step at a desired rpm to hold your rpms. If your converter is loose enough you can actually hit the rev limiter while on the Transbreak without a 2 step.
Running a 2 step draws a lot of attention because a 2 step goes hand in hand with delay boxes and tranny brakes. Granted you do not have to have a TB or DB to have 2 step. Just be aware that people will look at you like you are a snake in the grass.
Depending on type of 2 step, you CAN run it in NHRA foot brake classes (Sportsman). I say depends because if it is a "1 step", kind of like the Lingenfelter unit, it is ok. NHRA rules state that you cannot have an electronic rev limit device that alters rpm in two ranges. The Lingenfelter unit only stutters at one RPM off the line.
Part two of the rules say that *if* you run a single rpm device at the line, it cannot be activated directly by the driver...which means it has to be hooked up to the brake pedal. When you let off the brake pedal, the stutter goes away. The device cannot be hooked up to any other timed device that could be used to slow the car down after it takes off.
Now - Keep in mind that NHRA and drag strips are like the federal and state gov't. The feds make the generic rules and the states either ignore them, enforce them or some combination of the two. A track can make its own rules and say no electronic rev limit devices at all regardless of what the NHRA rule book says. They have that right. However NHRA makes them communicate that in some format that everyone has access to. This keeps small town tracks from creating rules to protect the local hero when an outsider roles in and shows him the other end of the strip.
There are some cons to a 2 step.
First one is simple - When the car is stuttering and you leave, you do not know if you are leaving when it is hitting on a low or high. If it is a low, you just introduced a delay into your launch which will show up on the tree. My 60 foot times never improved, they just became more predictable.
Second con - You do not load the suspension like you would if you were brake torqueing at a steady / smooth rpm. Again this introduces a delay into your launch. Also if you are one of the people that barely turns the stage bulb on, when the car starts stuttering and the suspension starts jumping, the car actually rolls back and forth allowing the tire to roll in and out of the stage beam. This can happen w/out a 2 step. I see it at least once at every race with someone.
Third con - The LS 2 steps that were out when I got mine all worked the same way, by shutting spark off not fuel. This means you are washing the cylinders down with raw fuel. It also means if you are not running open headers you could have a problem if you sat at the tree with the 2 step activated too long. Too much fuel in the cylinder when all the spark get turned on and combustion burn / performance gets all dorked up for a second which will slow you down as well.
From what I have learned - if you want to improve your lights and pick up time, get a looser converter. A 2 step is not going to be that beneficial on its own.
Depending on type of 2 step, you CAN run it in NHRA foot brake classes (Sportsman). I say depends because if it is a "1 step", kind of like the Lingenfelter unit, it is ok. NHRA rules state that you cannot have an electronic rev limit device that alters rpm in two ranges. The Lingenfelter unit only stutters at one RPM off the line.
Part two of the rules say that *if* you run a single rpm device at the line, it cannot be activated directly by the driver...which means it has to be hooked up to the brake pedal. When you let off the brake pedal, the stutter goes away. The device cannot be hooked up to any other timed device that could be used to slow the car down after it takes off.
Now - Keep in mind that NHRA and drag strips are like the federal and state gov't. The feds make the generic rules and the states either ignore them, enforce them or some combination of the two. A track can make its own rules and say no electronic rev limit devices at all regardless of what the NHRA rule book says. They have that right. However NHRA makes them communicate that in some format that everyone has access to. This keeps small town tracks from creating rules to protect the local hero when an outsider roles in and shows him the other end of the strip.
There are some cons to a 2 step.
First one is simple - When the car is stuttering and you leave, you do not know if you are leaving when it is hitting on a low or high. If it is a low, you just introduced a delay into your launch which will show up on the tree. My 60 foot times never improved, they just became more predictable.
Second con - You do not load the suspension like you would if you were brake torqueing at a steady / smooth rpm. Again this introduces a delay into your launch. Also if you are one of the people that barely turns the stage bulb on, when the car starts stuttering and the suspension starts jumping, the car actually rolls back and forth allowing the tire to roll in and out of the stage beam. This can happen w/out a 2 step. I see it at least once at every race with someone.
Third con - The LS 2 steps that were out when I got mine all worked the same way, by shutting spark off not fuel. This means you are washing the cylinders down with raw fuel. It also means if you are not running open headers you could have a problem if you sat at the tree with the 2 step activated too long. Too much fuel in the cylinder when all the spark get turned on and combustion burn / performance gets all dorked up for a second which will slow you down as well.
From what I have learned - if you want to improve your lights and pick up time, get a looser converter. A 2 step is not going to be that beneficial on its own.
Running a 2 step draws a lot of attention because a 2 step goes hand in hand with delay boxes and tranny brakes. Granted you do not have to have a TB or DB to have 2 step. Just be aware that people will look at you like you are a snake in the grass.
Depending on type of 2 step, you CAN run it in NHRA foot brake classes (Sportsman). I say depends because if it is a "1 step", kind of like the Lingenfelter unit, it is ok. NHRA rules state that you cannot have an electronic rev limit device that alters rpm in two ranges. The Lingenfelter unit only stutters at one RPM off the line.
Part two of the rules say that *if* you run a single rpm device at the line, it cannot be activated directly by the driver...which means it has to be hooked up to the brake pedal. When you let off the brake pedal, the stutter goes away. The device cannot be hooked up to any other timed device that could be used to slow the car down after it takes off.
Now - Keep in mind that NHRA and drag strips are like the federal and state gov't. The feds make the generic rules and the states either ignore them, enforce them or some combination of the two. A track can make its own rules and say no electronic rev limit devices at all regardless of what the NHRA rule book says. They have that right. However NHRA makes them communicate that in some format that everyone has access to. This keeps small town tracks from creating rules to protect the local hero when an outsider roles in and shows him the other end of the strip.
There are some cons to a 2 step.
First one is simple - When the car is stuttering and you leave, you do not know if you are leaving when it is hitting on a low or high. If it is a low, you just introduced a delay into your launch which will show up on the tree. My 60 foot times never improved, they just became more predictable.
Second con - You do not load the suspension like you would if you were brake torqueing at a steady / smooth rpm. Again this introduces a delay into your launch. Also if you are one of the people that barely turns the stage bulb on, when the car starts stuttering and the suspension starts jumping, the car actually rolls back and forth allowing the tire to roll in and out of the stage beam. This can happen w/out a 2 step. I see it at least once at every race with someone.
Third con - The LS 2 steps that were out when I got mine all worked the same way, by shutting spark off not fuel. This means you are washing the cylinders down with raw fuel. It also means if you are not running open headers you could have a problem if you sat at the tree with the 2 step activated too long. Too much fuel in the cylinder when all the spark get turned on and combustion burn / performance gets all dorked up for a second which will slow you down as well.
From what I have learned - if you want to improve your lights and pick up time, get a looser converter. A 2 step is not going to be that beneficial on its own.
Depending on type of 2 step, you CAN run it in NHRA foot brake classes (Sportsman). I say depends because if it is a "1 step", kind of like the Lingenfelter unit, it is ok. NHRA rules state that you cannot have an electronic rev limit device that alters rpm in two ranges. The Lingenfelter unit only stutters at one RPM off the line.
Part two of the rules say that *if* you run a single rpm device at the line, it cannot be activated directly by the driver...which means it has to be hooked up to the brake pedal. When you let off the brake pedal, the stutter goes away. The device cannot be hooked up to any other timed device that could be used to slow the car down after it takes off.
Now - Keep in mind that NHRA and drag strips are like the federal and state gov't. The feds make the generic rules and the states either ignore them, enforce them or some combination of the two. A track can make its own rules and say no electronic rev limit devices at all regardless of what the NHRA rule book says. They have that right. However NHRA makes them communicate that in some format that everyone has access to. This keeps small town tracks from creating rules to protect the local hero when an outsider roles in and shows him the other end of the strip.
There are some cons to a 2 step.
First one is simple - When the car is stuttering and you leave, you do not know if you are leaving when it is hitting on a low or high. If it is a low, you just introduced a delay into your launch which will show up on the tree. My 60 foot times never improved, they just became more predictable.
Second con - You do not load the suspension like you would if you were brake torqueing at a steady / smooth rpm. Again this introduces a delay into your launch. Also if you are one of the people that barely turns the stage bulb on, when the car starts stuttering and the suspension starts jumping, the car actually rolls back and forth allowing the tire to roll in and out of the stage beam. This can happen w/out a 2 step. I see it at least once at every race with someone.
Third con - The LS 2 steps that were out when I got mine all worked the same way, by shutting spark off not fuel. This means you are washing the cylinders down with raw fuel. It also means if you are not running open headers you could have a problem if you sat at the tree with the 2 step activated too long. Too much fuel in the cylinder when all the spark get turned on and combustion burn / performance gets all dorked up for a second which will slow you down as well.
From what I have learned - if you want to improve your lights and pick up time, get a looser converter. A 2 step is not going to be that beneficial on its own.
""Third con - The LS 2 steps that were out when I got mine all worked the same way, by shutting spark off not fuel. This means you are washing the cylinders down with raw fuel.""
I raised this issue long ago w/ one of the manufacturer folks. Search this forum for their reply. I'm sure if this was a real issue, we'd notice something different when changing the oil.
9 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,252
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
One other con I found my my car with the 2 step and NO t brake was that I could still not hold the car past 2k and setting the 2 step at 2 k "rapped" so slow it rocked the car and I could not keep focus on the tree which made it worse than not having it.
Staging deep will help your rt but will cost you et and may not even be allowed in your class so check that too.
Staging deep will help your rt but will cost you et and may not even be allowed in your class so check that too.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,713
Likes: 7
From: Humble Texas
thread back from the dead. i decided not to do the t-brake. it seems too harsh for a street truck...so now my mind is wandering on how to improve my R/T.
can you use a line lock and 2 step in conjunction? like, put both of them on the same button that way i can pull up to the line, mash the brake, hit the button then floor it off of the brake and the 2 step would keep me from pushing through???
i have no clue how the line lock works so i may just be dreaming. it seems like it would be easier on the drivetrain since i would still be loading up the suspension like a normal foot launch.
someone set me straight
this season is coming up quick.
can you use a line lock and 2 step in conjunction? like, put both of them on the same button that way i can pull up to the line, mash the brake, hit the button then floor it off of the brake and the 2 step would keep me from pushing through???
i have no clue how the line lock works so i may just be dreaming. it seems like it would be easier on the drivetrain since i would still be loading up the suspension like a normal foot launch.
someone set me straight
this season is coming up quick. 
