What are the lightest Drag Wheels?
01-16-2004, 12:24 AM
#21
Wow, this post has gone astray. I would hope no one thinks that I would be misleading them in any way, shape or form. Regarding my statistics, it is a generalized formula of a 1-8 relationship regarding unsprung to static weight. This statistic refers to what was mentioned above, for every lb of weight you remove from your wheels, it is similar to removing 8 static pounds off your car. Does this formula hold absolute for every wheel...NO, but it is a good GUIDELINE.
Bogarts aren't for everyone. I hope I haven't offended anyone whom uses other wheels as my comments aren't to make people feel as if they have an bad rim. As long as each person is happy with the choices they make regarding a wheel purchase, that is all that is important in the end.
I do want reiterate though that it is not a fair comparison of a Bogart P1 rim to a weld prostar or draglite, convo etc. The weld series is a low entry-level drag rim with an economical consideration. Weld DOES sell a rim which would be closer to a Bogart P1 rim, i.e. weld aluma star...looking at that series would be a better comparison. Even the prices are right in line with our rims. With this particular series, you really need to consider drag brakes as they can be even more difficult to fit...if you have drag brakes...then you can look at our P2 drag rims which are extremely light...i.e. a typical front 15x3.5 is UNDER 7 lbs!!! that is REALLY light.
Here's a few comments that can make you go "hmmmm"
One may be "splitting hairs" as John mentioned for the gains...BUT there can be gains made from these choices...not only from an ET standpoint, but even from an estetic point as the rims retain a show quality finish and are made to fit the car.
All weight adds up...just like a purchasing a K-member and a-arms. Is this a good modification to make? I FIRMLY believe so! What would you save by purchasing this parts? Lets say your saving 50 lbs from the stock parts (just a number...not exact by any means). Is this worth ~500.00?? that is a question each person must answer also...at this point one could be "splitting hairs".
If a person sais NO WAY, the k-member isn't worth 500.00 for 50 lbs loss. Lets say a typical Bogart set costs 500.00 more then a centerline set. Is the 500.00 more in cost worth 100 lbs in savings??
If you add up the total weight gain between a set of Bogarts and a K-member/a-arms, your looking at an EASY .1 gain not to mention less stress on your driveline.
It still boils down to each indivual and what he/she prefers and economically where they stand. I can only make factual statements that can help one make a decision, I cannot make that final decision for the person.
:-)
Steve
President
SJM Mfg, Inc.
Bogarts aren't for everyone. I hope I haven't offended anyone whom uses other wheels as my comments aren't to make people feel as if they have an bad rim. As long as each person is happy with the choices they make regarding a wheel purchase, that is all that is important in the end.
I do want reiterate though that it is not a fair comparison of a Bogart P1 rim to a weld prostar or draglite, convo etc. The weld series is a low entry-level drag rim with an economical consideration. Weld DOES sell a rim which would be closer to a Bogart P1 rim, i.e. weld aluma star...looking at that series would be a better comparison. Even the prices are right in line with our rims. With this particular series, you really need to consider drag brakes as they can be even more difficult to fit...if you have drag brakes...then you can look at our P2 drag rims which are extremely light...i.e. a typical front 15x3.5 is UNDER 7 lbs!!! that is REALLY light.
Here's a few comments that can make you go "hmmmm"
One may be "splitting hairs" as John mentioned for the gains...BUT there can be gains made from these choices...not only from an ET standpoint, but even from an estetic point as the rims retain a show quality finish and are made to fit the car.
All weight adds up...just like a purchasing a K-member and a-arms. Is this a good modification to make? I FIRMLY believe so! What would you save by purchasing this parts? Lets say your saving 50 lbs from the stock parts (just a number...not exact by any means). Is this worth ~500.00?? that is a question each person must answer also...at this point one could be "splitting hairs".
If a person sais NO WAY, the k-member isn't worth 500.00 for 50 lbs loss. Lets say a typical Bogart set costs 500.00 more then a centerline set. Is the 500.00 more in cost worth 100 lbs in savings??
If you add up the total weight gain between a set of Bogarts and a K-member/a-arms, your looking at an EASY .1 gain not to mention less stress on your driveline.
It still boils down to each indivual and what he/she prefers and economically where they stand. I can only make factual statements that can help one make a decision, I cannot make that final decision for the person.
:-)
Steve
President
SJM Mfg, Inc.
01-19-2004, 09:22 PM
#22
9 Second Club
Debating the potential .08 - .1 savings between Convos and Bogarts on weight alone is iffy.
I would think the better selling point with Bogarts is that the backspacing lets you tuck those 27x10 or 28x10 slicks up nice and neat in the wheel well without banging and cutting?? Now your talking .05??? off the 60' for better traction with your x3 multiplier applied for your 60' gains over the course of the 1/4 mile. Then adding a .08 for unsprung weight gains and now it's starting to look like a better investment gain for the dollars.
Naturally you need to be making the power required to use those big slicks before you get your full benefits, but they are there.
Rick
I would think the better selling point with Bogarts is that the backspacing lets you tuck those 27x10 or 28x10 slicks up nice and neat in the wheel well without banging and cutting?? Now your talking .05??? off the 60' for better traction with your x3 multiplier applied for your 60' gains over the course of the 1/4 mile. Then adding a .08 for unsprung weight gains and now it's starting to look like a better investment gain for the dollars.
Naturally you need to be making the power required to use those big slicks before you get your full benefits, but they are there.
Rick
01-19-2004, 10:53 PM
#23
Good point rick. I have mentioned previously in many posts the fact that they are designed to be used on an F-body instead of a one-size-fits most design. Even our 15x8's are set up differently and tuck nicer by about .75 of an inch to make the wheel tucked under the fender area instead of sticking out under the fender lip (or past).
This does make our job alittle more difficult as there are so many different scenerios. It has been thrown around to make a "standard" setup or "one-size-fits all to keep costs and build time down, but this is counter to what Bogart represents meaning they are "custom" built rims. If this was the case, then the rims would work well for some guys and not for others...at that point, you would probably be seeing posts like "what size spacer is needed" or "I've been grinding and grinding the calipers and it still doesn fit" type of posts.
Steve
This does make our job alittle more difficult as there are so many different scenerios. It has been thrown around to make a "standard" setup or "one-size-fits all to keep costs and build time down, but this is counter to what Bogart represents meaning they are "custom" built rims. If this was the case, then the rims would work well for some guys and not for others...at that point, you would probably be seeing posts like "what size spacer is needed" or "I've been grinding and grinding the calipers and it still doesn fit" type of posts.
Steve
01-19-2004, 11:15 PM
#24
TECH Senior Member
I bought my Bogarts from Steve and I can tell you his customer service and knowledge of his products is absolutely FIRST RATE! Trust me, if you want these wheels, he is THE one to buy them from. 
Ever bought something that wasn't quite first class and then later regretted not going all the way? That won't happen when you buy Bogarts...and I like that.
Ever bought something that wasn't quite first class and then later regretted not going all the way? That won't happen when you buy Bogarts...and I like that.
01-21-2004, 11:32 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by squinn
For the money spent how much E.T. drop are you going to see for they money, as going from pro stars to the lightest Bogarts. I guess if you have done every thing else to the car maybe.
01-21-2004, 12:30 PM
#26
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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I think Bogarts are very nice, but I would only run ones that I could run on the street that's just me I am more of a street/strip guy.
Okay, here are some Weld weights from Holly @ Weld, just so we are clear:
Pro Star 15x10, 16.5 box weight
Draglite 15x10, 16.5 box weight
Alumastar 15x10, 11.36 box weight
Draglite XP 16x8, 23.0 box weight
I don't think I am going to lose about $700 to switch to an 11.5 lbs wheel but I already have Pro Stars and did the grinding a few years ago.
If I was doing stuff from scratch I'd look at wheels that required less grinding but Pro Stars are like $750 for set for over $1000 for Alumastars.
Okay, here are some Weld weights from Holly @ Weld, just so we are clear:
Pro Star 15x10, 16.5 box weight
Draglite 15x10, 16.5 box weight
Alumastar 15x10, 11.36 box weight
Draglite XP 16x8, 23.0 box weight
I don't think I am going to lose about $700 to switch to an 11.5 lbs wheel but I already have Pro Stars and did the grinding a few years ago.
If I was doing stuff from scratch I'd look at wheels that required less grinding but Pro Stars are like $750 for set for over $1000 for Alumastars.
01-21-2004, 09:13 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Black Sunshine/ 00SS
Maybe we can get some Michigan guys together this summer, who have Bogarts, Welds, & Convo's & do some switching. I'll be running a 15x10 5"bs Convo, until I can afford something different. I'm curious in how much faster, if any, I'll go to by switching to a lighter rim.
01-21-2004, 11:29 PM
#29
My second set of Bogarts came today (P2-Aluma-lites), these are the drag version for the strip only use. They look great and are very light.
For the street I use the P1-Fluted Stars and am very happy with those. You can't beat the fit, they tuck in very nicely.
Steve 10 is a great guy to deal with and I highly recommend him if you are in the market to buy Bogart's.
For the street I use the P1-Fluted Stars and am very happy with those. You can't beat the fit, they tuck in very nicely.
Steve 10 is a great guy to deal with and I highly recommend him if you are in the market to buy Bogart's.
01-23-2004, 09:20 PM
#30
aluma lite bogarts....not just light but better trueness as far as quality built ,not to mention the show quality they posess..not many sets of welds i ever owned that were not bent slightly within a month or two ...
I hope my Bogart Welded RT's look as good!
01-25-2004, 12:18 AM
#32
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I've had my Weld Prostars for 2 years and they are showing serious signs of wear. They don't shine like they used to and the lugnuts have rust on them and have to be replaced every 6-12 months. I did the grinding and that was pretty much a bitch. I wouldn't even consider running a Y2K rim because of how nasty the calipers look now.
With all that said...I have 15x4.5 up front @$250 a pair.
15x8 with DR's @ $300 pair.
and 15x10 with Hoosier QTP's 28x13.5 for the track for @$350.
So about $900 for all 6 rims, plus money for spacers and extra money for lugnuts on a consistent basis.
Not bad and it fit my budget at the time. A local car is running some Bogarts and I have to say they are a much, much better rim. My 15x10's stick out about 1.5 inch from the car. Really doesn't look that bad until you pull up beside someone with a proper fit and just as big of a tire. My Prostars look very plain compared to the Bogarts. I can't say I will be making a switch next week but I could see it in the future. I would say that in this particular case you pay for what you get.
Good Luck,
ERIC
With all that said...I have 15x4.5 up front @$250 a pair.
15x8 with DR's @ $300 pair.
and 15x10 with Hoosier QTP's 28x13.5 for the track for @$350.
So about $900 for all 6 rims, plus money for spacers and extra money for lugnuts on a consistent basis.
Not bad and it fit my budget at the time. A local car is running some Bogarts and I have to say they are a much, much better rim. My 15x10's stick out about 1.5 inch from the car. Really doesn't look that bad until you pull up beside someone with a proper fit and just as big of a tire. My Prostars look very plain compared to the Bogarts. I can't say I will be making a switch next week but I could see it in the future. I would say that in this particular case you pay for what you get.
Good Luck,
ERIC
