Poor Man's Supercharger???
Poor Man's Supercharger??? I've been thinking about something for sometime. After reading Terry's fan post, I decided I would start a discussion.
Do you think there would be a benefit to make a custom sealed box that seals to the air lid or directly to the MAF that houses say a 3000cfm electric fan that pulls air from underneath the car. You could also build in a cool can of some sort or make a removable lid to insert dry ice in there. You wouldn't need to use it all the time, just activate it with a switch. To make it multipurpose, daily driveable, and more effective, you could make two intake holes with flexible piping that also draws in fresh air and get additional raming effect at speeds like we are accustomed to with the FRA.
I know it sounds pretty exotic, and would take some time to build, but I would imagine you could get some pressurization from it if you built it right. We have seen gains with the FRA of atleast a .1 and 1+MPH from more, cooler air and the small ramming effect at higher speeds. So what could a system like this do, pressurizing at all speeds and not the last half of the track. Every little bit helps and it just might help that 60' some more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I know it's GHETTO, but GHETTO is another word for Hotrodding in my mind. And I definately wouldn't make it out of plywood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Do you think there would be a benefit to make a custom sealed box that seals to the air lid or directly to the MAF that houses say a 3000cfm electric fan that pulls air from underneath the car. You could also build in a cool can of some sort or make a removable lid to insert dry ice in there. You wouldn't need to use it all the time, just activate it with a switch. To make it multipurpose, daily driveable, and more effective, you could make two intake holes with flexible piping that also draws in fresh air and get additional raming effect at speeds like we are accustomed to with the FRA.
I know it sounds pretty exotic, and would take some time to build, but I would imagine you could get some pressurization from it if you built it right. We have seen gains with the FRA of atleast a .1 and 1+MPH from more, cooler air and the small ramming effect at higher speeds. So what could a system like this do, pressurizing at all speeds and not the last half of the track. Every little bit helps and it just might help that 60' some more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I know it's GHETTO, but GHETTO is another word for Hotrodding in my mind. And I definately wouldn't make it out of plywood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? You'd never get "pressure" from it, but getting lots of fresh air up to the throttle body might make a difference in power. The other idea I'm playing with is a custom ram air setup or maybe just a fan down there to direct air up to the airbox during launch time.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Been there done that!
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MgBlOzYRXKoe9*TpgfgA8E02SRrq1hf1nbI6n1daPGFQEPFxb !Lm06rZ4JwTXCrsbjMKHkYw27f7GhM7!Dh7oQ/image06.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MgAAADMR36lxO5kRmPOfXCfE6yoosSkEllS49AidC5!gzEBPw sZbuxVTorX94Ylsl7Hsh7wPWCE*DB3BnFEqrA/image12.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwD**8UQsZqAQyusDSi8K5*E91CfAODMJ36kPMjMEIusi*t7h mG!aQfcph9hN8ePjXuykRphZbOqhLyeBfiHaA/Pict0008.JPG" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwAAAL4QjJmAQyusDSi8K3vklQt9LDzBU8smEoxqMQAy2JQrk zVjrIFyKcq4WMbQOxeIpWvBsAABLQyYhmVUWg/Pict0010.JPG" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwD**8QQh5qAQyusDSi8K0b9RJJFWLpOQEzex!st2eNk3W2O1 594zN*AWWUYWEu5itx3JX9b!AWkBIzM9!150g/Pict0007.JPG" alt="" />
<small>[ April 29, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MgBlOzYRXKoe9*TpgfgA8E02SRrq1hf1nbI6n1daPGFQEPFxb !Lm06rZ4JwTXCrsbjMKHkYw27f7GhM7!Dh7oQ/image06.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MgAAADMR36lxO5kRmPOfXCfE6yoosSkEllS49AidC5!gzEBPw sZbuxVTorX94Ylsl7Hsh7wPWCE*DB3BnFEqrA/image12.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwD**8UQsZqAQyusDSi8K5*E91CfAODMJ36kPMjMEIusi*t7h mG!aQfcph9hN8ePjXuykRphZbOqhLyeBfiHaA/Pict0008.JPG" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwAAAL4QjJmAQyusDSi8K3vklQt9LDzBU8smEoxqMQAy2JQrk zVjrIFyKcq4WMbQOxeIpWvBsAABLQyYhmVUWg/Pict0010.JPG" alt="" />
<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwD**8QQh5qAQyusDSi8K0b9RJJFWLpOQEzex!st2eNk3W2O1 594zN*AWWUYWEu5itx3JX9b!AWkBIzM9!150g/Pict0007.JPG" alt="" />
<small>[ April 29, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Terry go to this page... http://communities.msn.com/RichardsB...tradeluxe.msnw
for more photos of what I did. I took the idea of the FTRA and looked at the photo for about 1 year and then thought I could make one and so I did. But I sealed the air box and brought it down to the bottom of the car. I have not had a chance to try it out Wilwood F/uped my brake order so I have not had a chance to try it out. I won't know what IT did by it self as I also put in a cam, P/P heads Ferria valves and a new Mcleod clutch. I'm hoping to get out to try it as soon as Wilwood gets there head out of there *** and gets me the right brakes.
for more photos of what I did. I took the idea of the FTRA and looked at the photo for about 1 year and then thought I could make one and so I did. But I sealed the air box and brought it down to the bottom of the car. I have not had a chance to try it out Wilwood F/uped my brake order so I have not had a chance to try it out. I won't know what IT did by it self as I also put in a cam, P/P heads Ferria valves and a new Mcleod clutch. I'm hoping to get out to try it as soon as Wilwood gets there head out of there *** and gets me the right brakes.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? At the same time I did the ram air I also cut holes in the bumper to allow more air to go into the radiator. I thought I covered the radiator some so I better make holes to allow more air to go in. I have idled it for a long time while working on it and has not over heated yet. I really don't think it will the FTRA has the same amount of the radiator covered and they have no problem. I had to make the thing in PARTS so I could go around the brace and seal it with silicone. I did have to get ride of the two plastic parts that are by the radiator also. They were used to help the air flow.
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Brett Foote TECH Fanatic
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? It took me about 4 working hours to do it. I have experience with medal work that helped. I also have medal sheers so I did not have to buy any. I bummed the medal from the guys putting the heating duct work in the houses they are building next door. I only had to buy the pop rivets. I needed three pieces of medal about 3 foot long by 14 inches wide and another piece about 3 foot long by about 6 inches wide. I cut everything out of these pieces. I built it in the car as I went. Terry if you need some measurements let me know I'll do what I can
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? I've thought of an ice box that the air passes through as well Janzter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Since you've been thinking, how about thinking about this. You know that clutch/pressureplate/flywheel or flywheel and torque converter do a lot of spinning at high rpm, right? And its bound to make pressure inside the bellhousing too, right? What if you made a gasket for the bellhousing, and put a hole in one side for air to come in and another hole in the other side for air to go out of it? Now the flywheel has become an impellor in your new ghetto supercharger. Then what if you filled the inside of the bellhousing with that foam stuff that you shoot into a hole then it expands and hardens. Then you'd have to pull it apart and cut a path for rotating parts, and clutch forks or whatever. Think that would make some positive manifold pressure if you routed a line from the "exit" hole back around to the intake tract?
Have a beer while you ponder no parasitic losses <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
J.
Since you've been thinking, how about thinking about this. You know that clutch/pressureplate/flywheel or flywheel and torque converter do a lot of spinning at high rpm, right? And its bound to make pressure inside the bellhousing too, right? What if you made a gasket for the bellhousing, and put a hole in one side for air to come in and another hole in the other side for air to go out of it? Now the flywheel has become an impellor in your new ghetto supercharger. Then what if you filled the inside of the bellhousing with that foam stuff that you shoot into a hole then it expands and hardens. Then you'd have to pull it apart and cut a path for rotating parts, and clutch forks or whatever. Think that would make some positive manifold pressure if you routed a line from the "exit" hole back around to the intake tract?
Have a beer while you ponder no parasitic losses <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
J.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Excellent ideas, why not run the flexible tubes from the grill of the car as demonstrated in the pictures to the sealed aix box. Maybe place a fan on each side of the grill where the fan would suck the cold air in and force it into sealed air box or somewhere in between to ensure the air is force into the MAF opening. The cooler the air, the more power generated. I thought about this when I read about a ram air mod tunnel from the two grills to the air box on the LS1 forum except place a fan in there. Just an idea.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Kent Just for some information. I used a 5 inch tube that went through the front bumper. I had to cut the medal part of the bumper to make the hole big enough. That was no big deal but when I mounted the bumper the "Bumper mounting brackets" get in the way of that big of a hole. If someone was to do it they would need to go with about a 4 inch hole and you might mis the mounting bracket. I could have cut the bracket out of the way but this would have compromised the integrity of the support.
<small>[ April 30, 2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
<small>[ April 30, 2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>You will definitely not see any positive manifold pressure from this setup and the current to run the fan might be a factor as well. I think the dry ice idea is very cool though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> If you are planning to run without a filter at all you may gain a little.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chris I'm not sure if youa re talking about my photos or not. (talking about + manifold pressure) But for the record I sealed the whole thing with silicone all the way to but NOT including the lid.
<strong>You will definitely not see any positive manifold pressure from this setup and the current to run the fan might be a factor as well. I think the dry ice idea is very cool though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> If you are planning to run without a filter at all you may gain a little.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chris I'm not sure if youa re talking about my photos or not. (talking about + manifold pressure) But for the record I sealed the whole thing with silicone all the way to but NOT including the lid.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? You will definitely not see any positive manifold pressure from this setup and the current to run the fan might be a factor as well. I think the dry ice idea is very cool though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> If you are planning to run without a filter at all you may gain a little.
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Fans only blow air. You need a pump to create pressure. If you could rig up an electric pump that would supply enough air for positive manifold pressure, then you might be on to something. Maybe a kit with an electric pump, and a larger alternator. I think their might be quite a few people who are looking for 1-3 lbs of boost for under 2k or so. Its a great idea, the hard part is finding a pump that can handle the job.
P.S. You'd probably also need some sort of speed controller.
P.S. You'd probably also need some sort of speed controller.
Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? What bumper support? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
When doing the head & cam, I could look all the way through there, & thought of taking the plastic shroud off, so that air could come through the holes in the front, to my radiator & tranny cooler. Anyone done this?
I also thought that 4-5" pipe, run on both sides, up to the MAF, would be a cool ram air, and you would't need the lid. I believe the results would be better than with the FTRA. You would have to relocate the batery.
When doing the head & cam, I could look all the way through there, & thought of taking the plastic shroud off, so that air could come through the holes in the front, to my radiator & tranny cooler. Anyone done this?
I also thought that 4-5" pipe, run on both sides, up to the MAF, would be a cool ram air, and you would't need the lid. I believe the results would be better than with the FTRA. You would have to relocate the batery.
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? Doesnt matter if it is sealed to the airbox or not. It will provide cooler fresher air to the airbox but no positive manifold pressure.
Super/Turbochargers turn 10000's of rpms to get positive manifold pressure. It wont happen with even a full ram air seutp at 200mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
Super/Turbochargers turn 10000's of rpms to get positive manifold pressure. It wont happen with even a full ram air seutp at 200mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
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Re: Poor Man's Supercharger??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>Doesnt matter if it is sealed to the airbox or not. It will provide cooler fresher air to the airbox but no positive manifold pressure.
Super/Turbochargers turn 10000's of rpms to get positive manifold pressure. It wont happen with even a full ram air seutp at 200mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is that? It seems at 100+ a fair amount of air would be cramed into the air box and this would have to have some effect of the pressure in the manifold. I agree that it might not be much but it's better than a kick in the nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
<strong>Doesnt matter if it is sealed to the airbox or not. It will provide cooler fresher air to the airbox but no positive manifold pressure.
Super/Turbochargers turn 10000's of rpms to get positive manifold pressure. It wont happen with even a full ram air seutp at 200mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is that? It seems at 100+ a fair amount of air would be cramed into the air box and this would have to have some effect of the pressure in the manifold. I agree that it might not be much but it's better than a kick in the nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />