!ABS? How to?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,351
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From: Chicago, IL
!ABS? How to? A few of us have asked this before, but I am wondering if anyone removed their ABS module? Also post if you also installed a linelock at that point or not.
I drive my car alot so I am concerned about whether I need a proportioning valve for the brakes, what should the ratio front/back be? I thought it was 80/20?
Here is a thread from www.camaroz28.com about this:
http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum30/HTML/001237.html
I drive my car alot so I am concerned about whether I need a proportioning valve for the brakes, what should the ratio front/back be? I thought it was 80/20?
Here is a thread from www.camaroz28.com about this:
http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum30/HTML/001237.html
Re: !ABS? How to? Pro Stock John,
I have asked this same question. I guess know one knows. We will have to find out on our own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Coach
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Coach 02 M6 Z/28 ]</small>
I have asked this same question. I guess know one knows. We will have to find out on our own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Coach
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Coach 02 M6 Z/28 ]</small>
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,351
Likes: 1,781
From: Chicago, IL
Re: !ABS? How to? Off the top of my head GeorgeC, CEndres and maybe BeaSSt have done this mod.
Maybe those rotten bastards will help us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Maybe those rotten bastards will help us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: !ABS? How to? Really, why don't they hook us up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
Coach
PS. When are you going back to the track?
Coach
PS. When are you going back to the track?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,497
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From: Katy, TX
Re: !ABS? How to? Mike ( 1 Bad Z ) removed mine for me, and installed a line lock setup in it place last time my motor was out. No proportioning valve to my knowledge. I have the Strange front brakes...the car brakes fine.
I can try and snap some photos for you guys.
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: PaiN ]</small>
I can try and snap some photos for you guys.
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: PaiN ]</small>
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,351
Likes: 1,781
From: Chicago, IL
Re: !ABS? How to? Larry: Great!
Coach: At the rate things are going with figuring out my electrical problem, maybe not until after I swap on the LS6 heads and new cam (and other stuff).
Coach: At the rate things are going with figuring out my electrical problem, maybe not until after I swap on the LS6 heads and new cam (and other stuff).
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Re: !ABS? How to? Rotten bastard response <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> You want to cut the front pressure. You want about 1000 psi on the rear and 600 on the front. This is a drag application only. It is different for street-strip, road race etc. You are using more of the rear tire to stop the car. Use a brake bleeder valve tester to get your psi. We are using front & rear Strange brakes, Strange master & Willwood proportioning valve. We have removed the power brake booster and ran new lines thorughout.
Dave
www.thebeasst.com
<small>[ July 26, 2002, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: The BeaSSt ]</small>
Dave
www.thebeasst.com
<small>[ July 26, 2002, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: The BeaSSt ]</small>
Re: !ABS? How to? Here's what I did:
-Removed ABS block
-Cut and re-flared the feed line for rear brakes directly to rear brake feed line using a coupler
-Ran feed line for front brakes directly into Hurst Roll Control solenoid (used an SAE to metric adapter on the master cylinder end)
-Cut and re-flared the two factory front lines (with braiding on them), and put an SAE fitting on them so they'd hook directly to the line-lock solenoid
The solenoid acts as the splitter for the front brakes and the rear brakes are fed directly from the master cylinder. No need for a proportioning device because the master cylinder has seperate resevoirs for the front and rear brakes. Has been working just fine for me. The coupler I used for the rear brakes leaks a little, but I will fix that soon when I remove my engine (again!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Here's a pic:
<img src="http://www.turbo-ws6.com/bay2.jpg" alt=" - " />
-Removed ABS block
-Cut and re-flared the feed line for rear brakes directly to rear brake feed line using a coupler
-Ran feed line for front brakes directly into Hurst Roll Control solenoid (used an SAE to metric adapter on the master cylinder end)
-Cut and re-flared the two factory front lines (with braiding on them), and put an SAE fitting on them so they'd hook directly to the line-lock solenoid
The solenoid acts as the splitter for the front brakes and the rear brakes are fed directly from the master cylinder. No need for a proportioning device because the master cylinder has seperate resevoirs for the front and rear brakes. Has been working just fine for me. The coupler I used for the rear brakes leaks a little, but I will fix that soon when I remove my engine (again!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Here's a pic:
<img src="http://www.turbo-ws6.com/bay2.jpg" alt=" - " />
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,987
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: !ABS? How to? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>Off the top of my head GeorgeC, CEndres and maybe BeaSSt have done this mod.
Maybe those rotten bastards will help us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John, I already posted this info to you awhile back. My setup is pretty much identical to Todd's (above). I do not use any sort of proportioning valve either, and have made plenty of high speed stops. All you need to do is find someone with a good quality double-flaring tool (the factory lines are not soft and don't double flare easily), and someone that knows how to use it.
If you do want to install a proportioning valve, it certainly won't hurt anything, but I don't believe it's needed.
<strong>Off the top of my head GeorgeC, CEndres and maybe BeaSSt have done this mod.
Maybe those rotten bastards will help us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John, I already posted this info to you awhile back. My setup is pretty much identical to Todd's (above). I do not use any sort of proportioning valve either, and have made plenty of high speed stops. All you need to do is find someone with a good quality double-flaring tool (the factory lines are not soft and don't double flare easily), and someone that knows how to use it.
If you do want to install a proportioning valve, it certainly won't hurt anything, but I don't believe it's needed.
Re: !ABS? How to? You would not need a valve John unless you are putting them on the rear and doing away with your power brakes. You gonna drive on the street with em? Maybe thats why we have not heard from Berger in a while.
Dave
Dave
Re: !ABS? How to? George is definitely right...I bought a nice double flaring tool from Napa...well worth the money IMO.
Todd
<small>[ July 27, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Reckless ]</small>
Todd
<small>[ July 27, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Reckless ]</small>
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 77
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: !ABS? How to? Removing the whole abs is nothing special. I have been doing this for many years. I believe I was one of the first ones on the camaro boards to show the pathway for many guys on installing these for our cars. The first one on a 4th gen I did in 1997. ABS is completly not necessary and takes off quite a bit of weight between the abs computer and the modulator including misc wires. Heck, non of my normal everyday cars have abs either.
There is no loss in braking whatsoever. If you never use your abs, then you'll never know you removed all of it.
You do not need a proportioning valve but I HIGHLY recommended to tune your bias of braking between your front and rear brakes. Your front is heavier then the rear of the car, therefore in wet or locking conditions the rear will tend to lock up first. This can cause a car to skid in one direction or the other, or spinout around turns. What is optimum would be for front and rear brakes to lock at the same time therfore stopping is much more controlable and predictable. Stopping distance is shortened also. Testing is pretty simple, adjust the valve in wet conditions. Tell-tail signs of which wheels lock first will show. Adj the valve accordingly.
Remove all the components, tie the rear lines together and the front lines together and plumb them to the appropriate areas of the master cycliner using a proportioning valve on the rear lines. I can't tell you what fittings to use, it depends on how you plumb your lines, there are many ways of doing it. Just go to advanced auto and pick up a bunch of different fittings... I keep them in stock so I just pick what I need out of a bin.
Good luck
Steve
PS, this work is not the recommendation of PPO but myself as an indivual f-body owner.
There is no loss in braking whatsoever. If you never use your abs, then you'll never know you removed all of it.
You do not need a proportioning valve but I HIGHLY recommended to tune your bias of braking between your front and rear brakes. Your front is heavier then the rear of the car, therefore in wet or locking conditions the rear will tend to lock up first. This can cause a car to skid in one direction or the other, or spinout around turns. What is optimum would be for front and rear brakes to lock at the same time therfore stopping is much more controlable and predictable. Stopping distance is shortened also. Testing is pretty simple, adjust the valve in wet conditions. Tell-tail signs of which wheels lock first will show. Adj the valve accordingly.
Remove all the components, tie the rear lines together and the front lines together and plumb them to the appropriate areas of the master cycliner using a proportioning valve on the rear lines. I can't tell you what fittings to use, it depends on how you plumb your lines, there are many ways of doing it. Just go to advanced auto and pick up a bunch of different fittings... I keep them in stock so I just pick what I need out of a bin.
Good luck
Steve
PS, this work is not the recommendation of PPO but myself as an indivual f-body owner.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: AZ
Re: !ABS? How to? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by GeorgeC:
<strong>...the factory lines are not soft and don't double flare easily)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No kidding!! I had a hell of a time getting the leaks out of the flares I did on the factory lines. My cheap NAPA flaring tool would split the factory lines every time.
Jim
<strong>...the factory lines are not soft and don't double flare easily)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No kidding!! I had a hell of a time getting the leaks out of the flares I did on the factory lines. My cheap NAPA flaring tool would split the factory lines every time.
Jim
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: !ABS? How to? A buddy of mine in Gainesville has on old Snap-On flaring tool that works like a champ. I was trying to put a double flare on the stock return line to my fuel tank so I could attach a braided line to it. My Craftsman tool absolutely would not work on this steel line. I took it down to my friend's shop, and Voila!, no problem. I don't know what the heck is different about them, but mine just wouldn't hold the line in place and kept pushing it out of the tool.
Re: !ABS? How to? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by GeorgeC:
<strong> I don't know what the heck is different about them, but mine just wouldn't hold the line in place and kept pushing it out of the tool.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i always just borrow a cheap *** double flaring tool from Autozone for free when i do brake work. the line triend to push out of their tool too, but all you have to do is clamp down on the tool near the brake line with a set of vise grips.
when i took my ABS module off, i didnt use a proportioning valve. havent had it on the road since then yet though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
<strong> I don't know what the heck is different about them, but mine just wouldn't hold the line in place and kept pushing it out of the tool.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i always just borrow a cheap *** double flaring tool from Autozone for free when i do brake work. the line triend to push out of their tool too, but all you have to do is clamp down on the tool near the brake line with a set of vise grips.
when i took my ABS module off, i didnt use a proportioning valve. havent had it on the road since then yet though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 45,351
Likes: 1,781
From: Chicago, IL
Re: !ABS? How to? George, I was more wondering how everyone's !abs'd cars would brake. I drive my car a few thou a year and did not want to find out the hard way there is a problem.