There have been a lot of questions in this forum about running Stock Eliminator. Most people that I have run into at national and divisional races are a little reserved in talking about what they have in their car. I was hoping this thread could be a place where people could share proven techniques on getting a car under the index (11.70) or at least where they are in their build. I am learning as I go about this particular model (1998 Z28 Camaro) but will share all the info I have. To reiterate again, this is for people just starting out. No one is going to tell you how they run a second under the index, but I'm hoping people will share how they made the index.

 

The tires that almost everybody runs are the 30x9 drag radials. As far as I know, 9 inches across is the biggest tire that is allowed, and you need it. Hoosier and Goodyear make sets, and they are in 2 different sizes. One has a 92.5 inch circumference and the other is a 94. It might not seem like a lot, but it depends on what rear gear and final rpm you want to run. I am running the 92 in setup, and had to cut about 3/4" off the front and rear of the tire well just to get them to fit. This is legal as long as it appears stock and is only done for the fitting of the slick. My rear end is a 4.88 full spool strange 12 bolt. It can't be shortened (correct me if this has changed) and must bolt into the stock location. I run through the traps around 6700 rpm at 120 mph. When you order the 12 bolt, don't get any of the extra crap because it's not needed (abs and the whatnot). Any other info is much appreciated.

 

This is where I'm at right now. I can only tell you what I've found out over the phone. There are many good trans guys, but the one we've always had build ours is Ken Shawver out of Defiance OH (419-782-1711). He promotes three of them- a Scott McClay 200 metric, his own reverse pattern 200 metric, and his 350 turbo. I'm not in charge of prices, but what he quoted me was $3000-4000 for the Scott McClay (and a 3-4 month wait), $1900 for his 200, and around $2000 for his 350 turbo. Once again, don't call and fuss with him over a price change (if it happens) or quote him these prices. This is just what he told me.
The Scott McClay (I guess) is the best out of them. It's what (he says, and I trust him) most of the fastest guys run. His reverse pattern 200 is what my uncle and cousin run in their cars, and they're very happy with them. I've talked to a guy on this site that has his 350 turbo, so hopefully he'll weigh in with his experience. Any other info is appreciated. I'm going to call Comp Cams as soon as they open this morning and get info about their stocker cam.

 

And budget about $5K for "stock" heads...

 

The problem you have running stock eliminator on the "cheap" is when you set-up the car for a 2-5 tenth under the index deal, you have to remember the possible heads-up class rounds. And since A-F/S are popular, you'll be facing a loss everytime you line up with a car that can pound the index. Have you thought about buying a turn key stocker instead of building one?

 

Good luck on building your car into a C/SA cheap. To run stock Elim & be a player in the class you need lots of money and know the right people to help with the set up of the car. I am not saying it can't be done for somewhat cheap but to run with the best you need money. Good luck.

Coach

 

Villain, you're absolutely right, but it can be done. Chris Stephenson runs J-K/SA and there are a lot of them too. He also runs 2-3 tenths under the index and is 7th in the world right now. It does take some luck; he's been beat twice because of class rounds in eliminations, but that's why you're given 2 nationals and 3 divisionals to throw away. When I say cheap, I know it is quite subjective. I have thought about buying a turn key, but I'm stubborn- I like my car and want to do it with it. What I have in my budget right now is this-
$5100 in the car
$3000 in the rear
$3000 in the trans/converter
$2000 in freshening, tune up and stocker cam in the motor
$2000 in misc stuff- longer wheel studs, 5 pt harness and helmet, line lock, elec water pump, injectors, battery reloc, and fuel pump
$1400 in my roll cage, torque arm bar, frame ties and the welding
$1000 in the tuning and dyno time
$800 what I paid for my wheels/tires combo
$800 what I spent on my front and rear shocks, springs, and struts
That's all I can think of right now. If anybody has any useful info, please share it. I believe (if I haven't forgotten something) that this will get me really close to 11.50. When I have more money, I can get the motor ready to run faster.
Please share pitfalls or how it's done. I already know it's hard.
Thanks,
Wayne

 

The stocker camshaft that i'm going with is from Comp Cams. All you have to do is call Chris Padgett at Comp Cams (800-976-9376) and tell him your specs. If there is any confusion, just ask him for the cam they made for Randy Wilkes. I know, I know, there are different cams for what you're trying to do, but it helps to have the cam of the best. Any other info on cams would be appreciated.
Wayne

 

You need to buy your cam from Bullet Cams.

 

From personnal experience, you can go a second under in good air with legal heads (approx. $1,500.00 from Woodro).

 

Don't worry about heads-up runs. They are pretty rare. The fastest stockers rarely win the eliminator. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Good Luck,

Daren

 

These threads intrest me a lot but I hardly ever see any good answers. People usually answer like "cost a lot of money".

 

So what are the rules for c/sa?
Does "stock" cam mean stock cam or whats the deal here?
What kind of intake setups can be ran?

 

You just need to ask the right person. I've gotten a wealth of info from a few SE racers on this site.

 

It would be easier to ask "what aren't the rules"...lol. To get all of them, go to nhra.com and get you a rule book. To answer you question about "stock" cams, the thing to know is that you have to run factory lift for your year model engine/car. You can do what you want with duration and LSA. Camshafts for automatic transmission stockers are typically over .255 for duration at .050" lift and LSA of less than 110. Then, they are installed with an advanced ICL for starters. Advancing camshaft ICL is done with the idea of picking up a little low-end power. With Stockers limited in lift, everything is geared toward low-lift flow and torque at the hit of the converter. That is, for combinations that have relatively efficient heads. But the heads cannot be ported either. There are guys out there who try to massage the valve pockets to enhance flow but the surface must maintain the stock appearance, the runners must contain a specified volume of liquid, and combustion chambers should remain unmodified.

The LT1 loves torque so most combinations are going with around 5000-5200 converter and around 5.13 gears for that killer 60ft. And you are correct, the Metric 200 is the preferred mixer of most.

I don't run Stock Elim but I have a few friends that do. That being said, no one will give out all their secrets for the simple fact that helping you go faster may bite them in the long run should you have to go heads up. Go to www.classracer.com and just read. It's very entertaining. There's alot of bs to wade through but once in a while you can pick on some valuable nuggets of information. I will say this....everyone............and I mean everyone......I talked to said it's always, always, always better to buy a competitive stocker than building one. Just adding up your short list (which I'm sure has a few things missing), you're at app 20,000 dollars. For another 10k, you can be in one that runs .80 to .90 under. But it's your money and your choice. Good luck with it.

 

I thought you could only use a stock style rear end, so some form of the 10 bolt?

 

Key word here, is "style".
Last time I read the book, it said "may be replaced with another of the same type.[IE: 12 bolt]. Distance between backing plates may not be changed. Housing may be lengthened or shortened to obtain original width."
I'd suggest you get a current NHRA rulebook, and a set of spec sheets for your particular car, B4 you find yourself w/ expensive stuff that has to be changed....
"Peer tech" is somethimes much more "strict" than the track tech...be careful.

 

Agreed. From my experience, you don't get a lot of heads-up stuff. I know a few stockers and used to run the divisional races... I ran one whole season and saw maybe 3 heads-up deals. Not to mention some of those guys just have money/brains and make it run fast, doesn't mean they're going to cut a light.

Stock and Super Stock are cool, I'd like to run them but for the money it costs I can run a lot faster without the restrictions.

 

The current C index is not real hatefull. the problem is how far under you may "need" to run, or how you have to navigate the track if you are interested in protecting the index. I don't think the index will stand much longer especially with the loss of FI/A.

Stock racing is not cheap by any means...but if you are looking to get your feet wet, the index (for now) is very obtainable. A can get a good set of legal heads prepped for 12-1500. I would spend another 3-500 on getting the rest of the induction system working well. I would invest most of your money in valvetrain for now. I wouldnt spend huge money on a metric-200. Dollar to result wise the 200 would be last on the list. I would talk to Jason Coan about what you are looking to do...tell him you are just trying to get your feet wet! I would also let Jason do the converter.

No trick shortblocks yet... I would just rub on what you have. Blueprint it to all of your capability. I think you can do what you want without playing with a lofter lobe...I would get the smoothest acceleration you can get away with. Chris is a good guy, and should be able to make it work for you.

forget everything you have ever learned about setting a chassis up...you will need to rethink it. It will take some time to get in the game...but it is worth it!

Start small and work your way up... a $8k tranny is not going to make up for poor induction, or the wrong chassis setup. I would keep it all mild right now. 3-4 under should not be a big problem.

Good Luck...and most important HAVE FUN!
Dennis

 

Wayne,
If you are close to NJ or PA I will show you what the rule book does not say.

I will be at the Atco Divisional Race the beginning of Oct and the Dutch Classic at Maple Grove in late Oct.

I'm not sure how many cars we will have there but I would be happy to show you some of the facts of Stock Eliminator racing.

In a 98 you can run the LS or the LT. Long story. The LT is way cheaper to do. The LS in C has to weigh 3446 and the LT has to weigh 3239.

Check out the following:

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/class...ion/index.html

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/pistons/index.html

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/rods/index.html

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/engine/index.html

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/fuels.html

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ahfs.html

It is much cheaper and a ton less headache to buy a car that is already built.

We have sold the two cars in the pictures below that both ran 1.1 under for about 27K each. You may want to think about it.

Interested in coming to a race? Send me a PM.

Dennis,
The indexes do not change in Stock. You must be thinking of comp. They have been the same for years. Last time they were increased .2 to make it easier. What you do get is an increase in your rated HP which makes you have to carry more weight or move up a class. The FI cars are not always the fastest of the bunch. It all depends on the combo you pick. Some carb combos are soft.

There are more heads up runs since the blending of the FI cars with the carbs.

Daren,
The guys who win have enough in the bag to win heads up runs. Plenty of good and fast cars win. Most play with weight to get to a calculated position on the ladder.

BLK85,
Any rear from the same manufacturer. No truck rears.

Rich Scaz