Ape 408 makes 503 Dyno sheet
Originally Posted by 14u2nv
This is not mean to be negative but didn't Rapid Motorsports just hit 503 RWHP with a H/C on a stock 346 motor? I know your torque is higher as opposed to Rapid's 437 because of the increased cubes, but I would have expected more power over the new H/Cs out there.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Mentor, Ohio
I am not flaming Jammer's motor or anything...please don't think that! Jammer didn't post what kind of car this 408 is in but I have no doubt that a 530+ (crank horsepower) 408 would beat a H/C 346 with similar power especially under 4000rpm. I was just surprised to see the peak horsepower being so close, of course it depends on how wild the cam is and heads are. I will go out on a limb and guess that Jammer's car is a C5 since he is using LG headers. The test car Rapid used was a 02 SS M6 and stock 10 bolt with 3.42 gears. The 98-02 F-bodies' drivetrain (M6) tend to "SOAK" up less power then the C5's, right? It would be interesting to see the two motors swapped into the same car and see the difference. The Rapid H/C uses the LSX TB/Intake so bottle neck intakes aren't an issue. Either way this 408 will be presenting some traction ISSUES! Sweet motor!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by VINCE
You are looking at peak horsepower #'s bro. With a bigger motor you need to compare the under the curve of a 408ci with a 346ci. You will see a HUGE difference in horsepower. The peak #'s on the bigger cubed cars are hindered a little by the restrictive intake. No matter how you slice it a 470rwhp 383ci would beat a 470rwhp 346ci with all other things being equal.
Damn Vince representing APE?? whats going on here
, Also on top of what Vince said the 408 is probably a hell of alot more streetable than the 347 but the 347 are definatly coming up in the world thats for damn sure.
Originally Posted by Mike K.
Damn Vince representing APE?? whats going on here , Also on top of what Vince said the 408 is probably a hell of alot more streetable than the 347 but the 347 are definatly coming up in the world thats for damn sure.
, Also on top of what Vince said the 408 is probably a hell of alot more streetable than the 347 but the 347 are definatly coming up in the world thats for damn sure.Last edited by VINCE; Jun 12, 2004 at 07:36 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 151
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From: albany, new york
Originally Posted by 14u2nv
400hp at 5000rpm
I would be glad to race your 13.1 car for titles and then dump it in the river when i beat you by 20 car lengths.
The air restriction is everything in front of the TB like the maf, airbridge and the vararam.. FYI.
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The goal here is create good power under the curve at an affordable price. It was not for peak numbers, although we wanted to hit the 500 mark. We are not a shop like Rapid and do not compare this to them (no R and D here) ...this was a shot in the dark in many ways..it wasnt somebodys pre-proven "package". Ape provided the best service of any vendor we have done business with yet. This was basically a 500 hp budget build... [if you can fit the words LS1 and BUDGET into the same sentence]. We posted the graph, not to attempt to brag, but to show what a simple, affordable iron shortblock with decent heads and cam can produce (and tune). I only hope this was useful or fun information to anyone who is thinking about having a motor built or building it themselves.
4u2nv, before you place your expections in a thread or upon someone else, perhaps you should form those expectations based on quantative data... this is quantative data, so add it to your book of knowledge to formulate more realistic expectations in the future.
But thanks anyway. BTW, this is ITSOVR4U's C5, I have a 30th vert TA.
ITSOVR4U beat a GSXR 1100 from a 55 mph roll, and ran 11.0's with a slipping clutch and traction issues, intake restrictions, among other issues, not to mention the 1800 DA...
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
To the soon to be famous Mike K. : see you at the North / South right?
4u2nv, before you place your expections in a thread or upon someone else, perhaps you should form those expectations based on quantative data... this is quantative data, so add it to your book of knowledge to formulate more realistic expectations in the future.
But thanks anyway. BTW, this is ITSOVR4U's C5, I have a 30th vert TA.ITSOVR4U beat a GSXR 1100 from a 55 mph roll, and ran 11.0's with a slipping clutch and traction issues, intake restrictions, among other issues, not to mention the 1800 DA...
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
To the soon to be famous Mike K. : see you at the North / South right?
Last edited by Jammer; May 6, 2004 at 09:55 PM.
Originally Posted by Jammer
ITSOVR4U beat a 1100 from a 55 mph roll, and ran 11.0's with a slipping clutch and traction issues, intake restrictions, among other issues, not to mention the 1800 DA...
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Mentor, Ohio
Originally Posted by Jammer
The goal here is create good power under the curve at an affordable price. It was not for peak numbers, although we wanted to hit the 500 mark. We are not a shop like Rapid and do not compare this to them (no R and D here) ...this was a shot in the dark in many ways..it wasnt somebodys pre-proven "package". Ape provided the best service of any vendor we have done business with yet. This was basically a 500 hp budget build... [if you can fit the words LS1 and BUDGET into the same sentence]. We posted the graph, not to attempt to brag, but to show what a simple, affordable iron shortblock with decent heads and cam can produce (and tune). I only hope this was useful or fun information to anyone who is thinking about having a motor built or building it themselves.
4u2nv, before you place your expections in a thread or upon someone else, perhaps you should form those expectations based on quantative data... this is quantative data, so add it to your book of knowledge to formulate more realistic expectations in the future. But thanks anyway. BTW, this is ITSOVR4U's C5, I have a 30th vert TA.
ITSOVR4U beat a GSXR 1100 from a 55 mph roll, and ran 11.0's with a slipping clutch and traction issues, intake restrictions, among other issues, not to mention the 1800 DA...
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
To the soon to be famous Mike K. : see you at the North / South right?
4u2nv, before you place your expections in a thread or upon someone else, perhaps you should form those expectations based on quantative data... this is quantative data, so add it to your book of knowledge to formulate more realistic expectations in the future.
But thanks anyway. BTW, this is ITSOVR4U's C5, I have a 30th vert TA.ITSOVR4U beat a GSXR 1100 from a 55 mph roll, and ran 11.0's with a slipping clutch and traction issues, intake restrictions, among other issues, not to mention the 1800 DA...
P.S. He's been known to actually dump cars in the river.
To the soon to be famous Mike K. : see you at the North / South right?
As for this comment: "I would be glad to race your 13.1 car for titles and then dump it in the river when i beat you by 20 car lengths. " just plain ignorance. Again I wasn't bashing your car at all. But...since you seem to think you car will smoke my STOCK 98 Z28 A4, if that makes you feel like a bigger man then more power to ya BUD! If I were you and couldn't beat a stock Z28 A4 then I would dump that C5 in the river were it belonged. That is like me going onto www.thirdgen.org and running my trp to some guy that my H/C SS will smoke his stock Iroc-Z 305TPI and then I would blow it up cause it's a piece of ****! Hey...wait a second, that does make me feel like a bigshot, no wonder why you do it! I have an idea...I know someone that has a 1990 Mustang GT with a turbo 347 stroker that runs 8.8x's in the 1/4, would something like that make your heavenly VETTE worthy of river sludge? I think so! So back to my original statement; "sweet motor". I hate it when I come across a badass car and the owner is a ********. It's guys like you that make the guys from the FORD forums think all of us Ls1 owners are ********! Thanks BUD! Here's to YA
I can't beleive im going to reply, but I will.
1st of all this is not an F-body forum, this is a LS1 forum. Get that straight.
2nd of all, don't be so sure the 408 will walk away from the 346, there are numerous examples of that not being the case. There are several H/C cars in the 10's.
Lastly, I was just sharing information about this build up and responding to what appeared to be an either poorly worded response or a response that was not based in actual experience.
So take your attitude back to grade school and check it.
Hey mods, how about a lock.
1st of all this is not an F-body forum, this is a LS1 forum. Get that straight.
2nd of all, don't be so sure the 408 will walk away from the 346, there are numerous examples of that not being the case. There are several H/C cars in the 10's.
Lastly, I was just sharing information about this build up and responding to what appeared to be an either poorly worded response or a response that was not based in actual experience.
So take your attitude back to grade school and check it.
Hey mods, how about a lock.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by Jammer
To the soon to be famous Mike K. : see you at the North / South right?
Soon to be famous I like the sound of that
, Jammer I'm mainly into street racing but hey anything is possible. On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: albany, new york
Originally Posted by VINCE
You are famous!!!!
John
Originally Posted by ITSovr4U
Hey, vince when is that new setup going to hit the streets. I would love to see your results. Im sure Futral will do you right. My car is being shipped to APE this weekend for some changes. I want more power already and I know they can give it to me. What are your goals for your setup. Keep us posted. Any idea of what injectors you are using my 30#'s are maxed out at 95% so that is one thing i will have Ape swap out. Keep me posted.
John
John
I cant go pick my car up until June 18th. Allan told me my car should be done this month, but I am working seven days a week until June 18th. I am working on a HUGE DWDM project right now with my company and I am the Project Manager. Allan and I decided on 42lb injectors because of my nitrous setup. My goals for my setup are basically simple. I informed Allan I wanted a NICE street setup. I do not venture to the track, so I have no need for anything radical. Actually APE held us up with just shipping out the L-19 studs Now I am sure Allan is going to dyno my car when he is done. Allan likes things a certain way and he will not deliver the car until it is that way. I am kind of getting pushed locally to ask Allan to go a little more aggressive, but I will leave that up to him. This is going to be a Allan Futral Street Creation. As long as my idle is 1000rpm and below. I can care less what cam he puts in there. TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Vince a project manager? Uh oh, and I was just starting to think brighthouse was doing things right
Guys Vince's car is seriously gonna kick some ***, Futrals setups always do kick ***.
Im gonna be scared to race him and thats no joke.
Guys Vince's car is seriously gonna kick some ***, Futrals setups always do kick ***.
Im gonna be scared to race him and thats no joke.
This will be fun to hear about (outcomes)...June 18th...just in time to join us at the North South. John and I will be there, come join us. Love to see Mike and Vince line 'em up at street car chaos friday night. Were just a bunch of iron men it looks like huh.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
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From: Mentor, Ohio
Originally Posted by ITSovr4U
You have no idea what you are talking about..... I could give a f#$@ about peak #'s. It is AVG power through the power band that wins races. I also have 4:10 gears, And all my belts.
I would be glad to race your 13.1 car for titles and then dump it in the river when i beat you by 20 car lengths.
The air restriction is everything in front of the TB like the maf, airbridge and the vararam.. FYI.
I would be glad to race your 13.1 car for titles and then dump it in the river when i beat you by 20 car lengths.
The air restriction is everything in front of the TB like the maf, airbridge and the vararam.. FYI.
"I would be glad to race your 13.1 car for titles and then dump it in the river when i beat you by 20 car lengths!" you were saying? I rest my case. This guy who was ignorant enough to say this to me, because I was comparing his combo to a 346 H/C producing similar PEAK RWHP(not torque) numbers in a COMPLETELY different drivetrain/car, should belong on ls1.com the COOL GUY forum. I was expecting the next post from him to be some **** about why don't I drive to his state and race him and then he'll drive here to my house so we can fight! If you can't participate in a friendly conversation then don't get involved. I love key-board tough guys.