FAST 92/92 VS Stock TB/LS1 intake Gains (M6) ect...
 

Here are my results of my FAST 92 intake with FAST 92 TB swap. The dyno sheet is 2 run files before and after on the same sheet (before being a stock TB and LS1 intake). The gains were amazing after the install (driving wise) but surprisingly lower than anticipated on paper. I really thought I'd be over 400 RWHP and so did my tuner. He is one of the best in the business so I rule out the tune being the issue. He mentioned that just about every other LS1 he's tuned doesn't have the K&N FIPK set-up like I do, and that may be my problem. He suggested that I swap that out for the SLP RAM AIR w/ LID style and also upgrade the MAF to the SLP as well (currently Granatelli MAF).

Here's a list of my current mods:

M6,3:90 Gears
Nitto NT555R's
Hellion Cam 244/248 .630 112.0
Stock 241's
Lunati Dual Valve Spring Kit, JP Double Roller Timing Chain and Manley Chrome Moly Push-Rods
K&N CAI,/FAST 92/92 TB
underdrive pulleys
ARH w/ cats, Borla Cat back

As far as my times go I feel like they should be lower and higher trap speed (car 55, this is before the FAST intake upgrade).

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...ccb05193ba.jpg

I asked him why my MPH is so low compared to other people on the site with similar set-up as myself... Basically he said that I really don't have enough seat time at the track and not to worry about it. I brought up the new shift light I installed and he was curious as to why I had it set so low (6400). I mentioned that a member on here recommended to me that I should NOT shift any higher than 6500 due to damaging the engine. So this is what he said lol...

Basically I've been robbing myself of a decent time do to short shifting. The cam I have should be shifted at 6900-7000. By doing that I will fall back into my power band and drastically improve my ET and trap speed. Even tho I don't have the beehive springs like people praise, I'm still going to roll with it. :drive:


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...d0008c68e8.jpg
:corn:

I had an FIPK on mine from the previous owner. Lid and SSRA picked up significantly. It was all stock besides a Flowmaster otherwise and I was very impressed with the gains especially up top.

Those are crazy low numbers, especially for a Hellion. And agree with Mike, you're killing your time by shifting so low.

Im on the app, so I can't see your sig- what heads do you have now?

So, you picked up 20/10 essentially with the FAST 92 over LS1 with no heads.

Something is also wrong with that car. It should be making more power than 370rwhp before the FAST.

Also, you should be shifting at 7200 or so with that cam once it's dialed in. And it's not. Something is off there. If you're afraid of grenading your engine, then you picked the wrong cam. The StreetSweeper-HT from Ed Curtis would have been better for midrange power and could have been shifted around 6500-6600. 228/232 111...

And I'm not sure what beehives have to do with anything. Nobody would run beehives with the Hellion's lobes.

Stock 241

The tuner and I talked about the low numbers. I believe its due to the cats (-10HP) and also the 3:90s (power loss on the dyno). The ram air set up is also not helping either. I really think my issue is my stock 241s. Can you honestly say you have seen someone on here with the same set up as I do? I haven't seen one yet. I saw one guy with a similar set up be his heads were ported and the gains from that were significant.

That cam is simply wrong for the motor / car.

That cam needs gears, even steeper than 3.90's. It needs to BREATHE- that means the highest flowing heads you can get.

It's not a Y-pipe fan either. The freest flowing exhaust you can get...

To spin that cam where you need to, I hope you have titanium retainers. Also I wouldn't put 5/16" .080 wall pushrods either. Not for a 7k car.

You realize you have a straight drag cam, right? The original StreetSweeper would be a much better choice, or even the SSHT, as mentioned.

Ok, I didn't post this thread so people can bash me for my set up. I have what I have and it is the way it is. I realize there is much better set ups out there. All I'm trying to do is put some good info out there as far as numbers. We all have a learning curve at some point when it comes to cars. When I originally bought everything I should have researched more. Instead I said " I want a bad ass cam that sounds killer" Mike even said " You know we have that exact same cam in our race car" That made me want it even more... I'm planning on keeping the car forever and I will eventually upgrade the heads when I get the funds. For now, it looks like I should ditch the cats even though before I added them my neighbors wanted to shoot me because of the noise @ 5:30 am lol.

Sorry if I come off as a dick but I'm just getting tired of people saying my set up sucks :cheers:

Cats, Y-Pipe, etc. Won't pick up the 40rwhp you're down. Plus the ARH cats are actually pretty good. So is their Y-Pipe. Are they 1-3/4" headers?

That cam with a FAST 92 and 241s, good headers, and a valvetrain that isn't imploding should be 430rwhp. That's how much cam you have.

As stated by Whigham, you still need a lot of work to support that cam. But it should be doing better than it is.

There was a guy here in town who had it in a 383. And he sold the car. It was too much in a 383. But he made 490rwhp with it with some TEA 1.5 heads and like 470rwtq.

I'd definitely run Ti retainers, 11/32 or 3/8" pushrods, better than stock lifters, 1-7/8" headers, true duals, and some ported heads with compression up near 11.8:1. I'd also throw some 4.30s at it.

I do not think anybody said your setup sucks, it is just setup far from optimal. That cam needs spun to 7-7200 and you need 4:56 gears with a much better flowing exhaust.The 241's are not hurting power that bad. It should still trap 120 with stock heads in decent air.

Ok, sorry to get defensive. I have 1 7/8 headers.

Why would my power off 40 hp? The car feels strong. Has 84,000 miles on it and 3000 miles on the LS7 clutch.

Dynos are just tuning equipment. So it may not be that far off. But a 112 trap suggests it is. That's a small cam trap.

I would expect 116-117 as long as the car isn't 3800+ lbs. I don't know about 120. Spin to 7200 and see what that does. You might pick up 2-3mph. So you're still looking for 2-3 I would think (at least).

Keep in mind I haven't ran the car since the intake swap and the slip I have listed I was short shifting like a mo foe.

Exactly what Mike said when we were going over the shift points as compared to the dyno graph. My car is convertible with subs in the trunk so it's a weight hog. Another key factor. I haven't had it weighed and I can't recall the factory weight for a convertible.

The funny thing is when I had pace setter headers and ory with the same cam I dyno'ed at 398 rwhp. But the day I got the car back I blew the clutch. They had to cut my exhaust off when the new clutch went in so that's why I went with the new exhaust set up. The thing that sucks is I don't have any room at all for a cut out before the cats on the arh set up. I've been thinking of making an insertable pipe in place of the cats with a bandclamp. That way I could remove them as desired.

My car is a shining example of low dyno numbers but actually runs like it has that extra 50 hp that the dyno says I don't have lol....Bottom line forget the dyno numbers ;) Now your trap speed is important and I agree with others that it's way off. Even shifting at 6400 you should be getting AT LEAST 114-115 IMO

Thanks for the input man. Yea, that trap speed is low. Haven't seen many f body's at the track when I go so I can't rule out the track either. I think with more seat time I can dial it in.

Any idea on where your timing is at? Not just WOT but all around? I just found out I had a VERY weak and conservative tune but had that fixed last nite

I'm not sure what the timing is at. I'll shoot my tuner a text later today and see if he remembers any details about my tune.

The gains look good for an intake swap. I picked up 15 rwhp with a FAST 90 vs my LS6, but the tune was also better, so all of that gain can't be attributed to the intake alone.

I upgraded the throttle body as well to a fast 92MM.

My LS6 intake was run with a FAST 78mm TB and my FAST 90 was run with a 90mm TB.

Just get some more seat time and see if your trap speeds improve. If you have enough fuel to shift at 7300 rpm's, then try that. Just make sure the car isn't too lean at that high rpm. You could also try to find another dyno to put it on to compare, but trap speed is the real indicator of the power a car makes.

I only gained 12whp and 10tq or somthing like that going fast92/92 over my stock intake (LS6) and TB that new era ported. never dynoed form the tb change, but its 7-10 over stock Tb. What did mike saw about the fast gains, I think that right on for the setup.
im not a tuner, but I know is race mode, with a open super hi flow intet setup, and open headers, you can turn the tune up and get some power, but a maf, open cone filter getting hot air, and cats that limits it. Not seeing that it go 120s. When i started going 120s cam only, I was the same whp (395) on the same dyno, But I was probably 800-1000 pounds less weight, with the right slicks/gear, good shocks,hooking.

Hey scotty, I think the gains you got from the intake swap seem pretty good. I know it is over the LS1 manifold but you're still on the stock heads. One day get some good flowing heads on there, with a bump in compression, & it will help out a lot.

An intake setup like this does shine more with great flowing heads. Again, it's all in the combination of parts and how well they work together.

Hey man, I was hoping you'd chime in...

Yea, Mike and I talked about how heavy my car is and also the short shifting.He thought I'd crack 400 rwhp.I guess I just set the bar too high for myself with the current set up. My goal is to hit the 11s on the stock 10 bolt if that's even possible. It sounds like I need to ditch the cats to have Mike optimize the tune for peak gains. Too bad the race season is over lol.

I do plan on porting the heads and upgrading the rear to an S60 with 4:30s in the future.

Thanks. All in time. Shit is ADDICTING! haha

It is lol. I think the low dyno results are a result of the restrictions in the exhaust and intake side. The fast easily outflows the stock 241s and the 1.75 pacesetters and y aren't doing you any favors.

Sending the heads to AI would cost abou a grand to go with their 241 high compression program. Couple that with bigger headers and you'll pick up quite a bit of power. Unfortunately this is one of those situations where bigger bites you in the ass. Not trying to be a dick there lol a smaller cam probably would have performed better given the combo. But at least now you have room to grow. I would save up some cash and do the so program for 1500-1800 you could do heads and pick up some speed egn headers and make 450

Oh, I don't have the pacesetter set up on the car anymore. I have the 1 7/8 ARH with cats on it now with Borla cat back.

I have a shit ton of parts laying around that I need to sell.

Thanks for the I put man.

I'd be happy with the power numbers. I'd say 400+ with stock heads is more the exception than the rule. The torque numbers look low, but that is a big cam and it's definitely carrying the power up top.

The mph does look low, but there are so many factors that can effect that (weather, driving, power curve, etc). I'd try shifting at 7,000 rpm and see how that effects it. Also, probably worth ditching the cats and see if that picks you up any power. Different brands/setups, but I picked up 8 rwhp getting rid of my Dynatech cats and installing off road pipes (heads/cam 2002 Z28).

Biggest thing is to make one change at a time, driving or with the setup, to see what works and what doesn't.

I also agree that ported heads should help out a good amount, especially with that cam. I've heard good things about the A.I. heads as well, and have been thinking about trying out a set on my G8 when I'm ready.

Keep us updated!

Will do! And I thank everyone for their input. It's been an expensive summer lol. :cheers:

Any idea what your race weight is? I just noticed it's convertible.

Also, since your track numbers are from before the intake, you could see a couple tenths and a couple mph without any changes in driving now.

I was trapping 112 in my 00 vert Camaro with just bolt ons and stall. No gear changes were made either.

I have no idea. If I had to guess I'd say 3800 with me in it +\- 75 lbs.

could the ls6 clutch be slipping? I was under the impression that 400 rwhp was too much for that clutch.

I was told it's good to a little over 500 so I'd say I'm good. I'm determined it's the cats restricting all that built up pressure and also the 3:90's robbing the dyno of some power. I dyno'ed in the spring after the cam install at 389 with stock clutch, 3:42's, pacesetter headers, ory and hooker cat back so that tells me it's the cats...

Highly doubt it's in the cats. If that's what it did before is be checking to make sure everything is inline. Gears will rob a bit but it's not much maybe 5-7whp and then you went to bigger headers which still should have gained over the pacesetters even with cats

Add the 5-7hp loss due to 3:90's plus the 5-10 hp loss due to the cats and bingo. Numbers make sense to me.

I'm planning on modifying the y pipe to be cat less in the spring. I'll post up the new dyno numbers.

please do but i doubt the cats cost anything... especially after bigger headers

You guys are missing it...

This cam should make WELL OVER 450 to the tire, 3.90's or not.

Mike is a VERY reputable tuner, and is extremely familiar with Ed's cams.

You need heads and duals. Bottom line. HEADS AND DUALS.

See what the KPa is at WOT. I bet you need to go speed density with a 4" intake tract and lid as well.

That cam comes ALIVE at 6k RPM.

WHY am I even wasting my breath? Just email Ed Curtis with your set up and and ask HIM why it's doing what it's doing. He made and designed the damn thing.

I don't know what we picked up HP wise, but I installed a Fast 90/90 on my friend's otherwise stock 98' Corvette (Automatic) and tuned it. With those mods and my tune, he gained 4 tenths and 3mph over the stock LS1 intake and tb. We went from 13.2 @ 106 to 12.8 @109mph. the DA on both runs was identical as well.

Good Hi-flo cats don't rob much power if any now. ARH claims 0 loss with theirs.

A sponsor posted a gear swap chart awhile back in relation to HP / tq and according to him going 3.90s is about a 10 - 15 rwtq increase over 3.42s. I cant remember the hp numbers. Ill try and find it next time im on my desktop.

For now I ordered the factory air box set up. Then I'll add the 104mm lid. Would sd tune be better without driving extremely worse?

Bottom line I lost 10hp when I added the cats. That's even going from pacesetter ory to 1 7/8 ARH with catted y. Proof is in the dyno sheets.

I agree I know I need to do the heads. That's just not in my budget for now.

A good lid setup with some form of ram air should help. That FPIK thing is garbage.

SD Tune all the way with that cam. Screw the MAF. Especially a 100mm MAF.

I have the 4" MAF housing on the FTP 104 but I don't use it. It's just an open tube. I use the IAT there, which heat soaks - so I'm thinking it's time to relocate the IAT to under the car away from the heat. That's the only downside to an SD tune. Otherwise, if you tune it Open Loop at idle and Closed Loop at cruise, you won't miss the MAF. If anything, you'll get better throttle response and drivability as it is INSTANT vs the MAF which lags...

I dont think anyones missing it....We've all said the op is choking the combo with heads and no duals. He's just getting caught up in little things that wont do much. No ones arguing that the cam should make 450 but it def wont with his setup now. If he wants that number he needs better heads and duals. I think speed density would be a good way to go but if not a 4" maf will probably work just fine. I personally wouldnt waste any time with that now though. My first mod would be a set of ported heads

Op do as whigham said get a log of wot if kpa drops off anywhere over 4500 then you have an intake restriction.

Totally agree with you guys and am on the same page now. As far duels I'm not sure. I love the borla set up I have now. I know duels would free up power but I spent some good money on the Borla and it's nice to be able to dial the sound down.

As far as the k&N fipk, it came on the car when I bought it and I'm going to swap that to the lid style soon. I need to make sure my tuner can tune for an sd set up before I do anything else. Don't wanna waste anymore money lol.

Heads will definitely come in the future but for now I need to iron out all the little things so when the heads go in my wallet shuts at the same time.

No, what Dave is saying is that cam can make 450rwhp with unported stock LS1 heads. Ported heads, 500 would be the goal. Not 450. This isn't a 228/232 cam. It's a 244/248.

That's how far off is he. That's why we're saying something is amiss. It could be something is actually wrong with the motor. The only way to know for sure is to run it at the track and run it with an appropriate rev limiter.

Obviously, a better exhaust and intake tract will help. But will they make up that much power? Who knows. The issue is dynos are fairly unreliable when it comes to determining what a combo should make vs what it does. That's why I keep saying the track MPH is going to be important. Being down 50-60rwhp is a little more than variance in dynos, but if it MPHs like it should, then who cares what the dyno says? The issue is, we don't have a good track outing to compare the dyno to because of the short shifting.

Here you go OP

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-395wtq.html

Jake, can you pass inspection with the MAF disconnected? I don't think in New York state it will pass inspection.

I'm pretty sure if they aren't going to pass you because of the MAF being disconnected, they sure as hell aren't going to pass you with the car idling and shaking like it will with the Hellion.

MAF isn't a emissions thing. Dodge doesn't use a MAF at all. Ford only uses a MAF. And GM uses a hybrid SD/MAF approach. It's just air metering for fueling.

If you hard code your airflow requirements in your VE table, your fueling is set and will only vary 2-4% unless you have crazy wild swings in temperature of elevation. Of course, most of the time, the IAT and MAP can make up those changes pretty accurately.

The reason I say do SD is because the fueling then is from a lookup table and the PCM can command fuel based on the MAP sensor reading, which is much faster than the MAF.

And the Hellion isn't going to pass any sort of inspection. LOL

The car was a C-5. The title of the post is confusing. Mike mentioned this to me.

Your point??? Still a LS1 with the shittier LS1 heads.

Lol, ok thanks for the info.

Haha, yea I guess it doesn't matter it's a C-5. My mistake!

I mean, I think the drivetrain loss is less with a C5, but not really anything that's going to make a huge difference. I would e-mail Ed and pick his brain since it's his cam. I bet he'd be able to lead you in the right direction. I bet it's nasty sounding though. Would love to see/hear an idle clip.

I posted an idle clip before and after cats clip.

The thread is called - exhaust too loud

I'll see if I can find Ed's email address.
Thanks!

IIRC some magazines that tested back to back when the cars were new found the c5 to have MORE drivetrain loss.

I have it. If you need it, shoot me a PM.

Well, there you go OP. Check out that guys build and see what he has that you don't because his numbers are pretty on par with what I'd think that cam should make with full bolt-ons.

Understood. I'm going to change a few things up in the next month or so. Seeing it's so late in the season I highly doubt it I'll make it to the dyno till March. But I will definitely update everyone and hopefully I don't have anything wrong with my motor internally. Cheers!

The drivetrain loses more than a 10-bolt but less than the 9" stuff.

But Vettes dyno higher because of the exhaust design. Most folks on here still run a y-pipe setup and the duals are worth a good bit. You could try to run it with just open headers or a cutout to see what that does. I have a feeling the overlap of the cam is more susceptible to minor exhaust changes than lesser cams.

In a max effort cam only setup and 92 fast I'm probably close to 500 whp dynojet in my vette with dumps and small mufflers.

Probably? C'mon, get that thing on a dyno

Sound clip
 

Here's a sound clip of the car as of now...

So that's with the idle set at 1000 rpm's?

Yes, maybe a little more. I forgot to mention this was before the tune. Now it idles @ 900.

This was without the cats.

It been on a mustang dyno before some he upgrades and made 462.

Headed to the drag strip in the next week. I'll post results.

It will trap over 130 or I'll give it away. Lol.

Trap speeds don't lie. Hope it does what you're hoping.

My car is well setup for drag racing and light so it should run.
I'm going Friday to the strip with my cam only vette and will post results with stepped ARH primaries up to 2", FAST 92/92, dumps off headers with small mufflers, and a healthy cam.

Got a few passes in. We trapped over 140mph but I'm still unsure if a fast 102 and 102 TB would help with unported 243's. And if they only picked up a few hp it wouldn't justify the cost.

What et did you put down? 140 mph is damn good. What is the exact size of your cam?

Wow. That's nuts. Post that time slip.

9.800 with a bad 60'. 1.464
Air wasn't bad.
Cam is big. Not at liberty to reveal specs. It peaks a bit too high for the stock bottom end. We cannot use all the power and risk hurting the motor.
This is an important note for guys who run 1/4 mile. You want to shift and go thru traps above peak hp. So spec accordingly and don't chose a cam that peaks near where you can buzz the motor safely.

So you're running high 9's cam and intake only?

Nice times. I think you should make a thread of those numbers. Many people will benefit from your set up.

Yes. Hopefully lower soon.
Car is setup for drag racing. Light and efficient. I don't drive on the street much anymore.

I'm not big on build threads but have been helping people for years esp. On CF and am always willing to answer questions for anyone. I have a good bit of knowledge with manual cars on the drag strip.
Sorry to the OP for hijack.

No worries. How about you list your current mods including cam spec's and a dyno graph is possible. This site is full of good and bad information but concrete evidence is always the best.

Once I change a few things up I'm going to report back. Hopefully with better results!

SBE w/rod bolts
custom cam
drag race prepped chassis w/ stock suspension(front Afco's/rears stock leaf)
stock 243 heads
custom valvetrain(ti valves,conical springs,lightweight retainers,stock rock.)
American Racing headers [stepped to 2"]
Fast 92/92
vacuum pump
dumps with small mufflers off primaries
T-56 faceplated
c5 rear diff. w/4.10's
adjustable clutch
speed density/AFR~12.5

The valvetrain is unnecessary unless spinning the motor above 7000 rpm consistently. I would do trunion upgrade on stock rockers though.
The cam needs to be spec'd to ones combo and to what the person wants out of the car.
The best thing to do on cam selection is to have a pro like Ed Curtis or Martin spec one out for you based on setup.

So the cam is from Ed?

Good question. My money says it is.

Figured I'd update:

I took the FIPK off and installed the FTP 104 lid. Car rips the tires a little in 4th now. Definitely have way more throttle response. Next will be an A/C delete with the CHRS1313 ram air.

bring both the the dyno. the 40* air and dry snow air -DA , on cold roads always make the car spin and feel alot faster




anothe one of eds bunny slippers cam dose it again :usa:

Bunny slippers cams. WTF.

Haha. Maybe I should have mentioned I did the mod before it was cold as shit here!

Feedback from FlowTech
 

So I finally got a chance to talk to Ed @ FowTech.

Special thanks to Dr. Whigham for assisting me :cheers:

Looks like I'll be saving for some small bore MAST cathedral heads and a rear that will support 4:56s. I guess I can expect to see numbers over 500rwhp if I get true duels also. Time will tell :chug:

Thanks again for all the members on Tech that have given me great advice and listened to me over and over again lol

Bring on SPRING!:D

Good deal scotty! Can't go wrong with MAST heads. My buddy got them a while back and the car hauls

Thanks bud! Im thinkin something was up with my car on my previous tunes. My plugs looked terrible and stunk like fuel. Curious too see the new numbers with the new mods :nod:

Goodluck Scott and keep us posted.

What do you guys think of the MAST heads? I haven't seen many people using them on here.

Worth the money?

I've seen good results with them but plan well in advance. Hopefully their customer service got better.

They had a serious backlog of LS3 heads. They sold a HELL of a lot more than they intended and got behind, so there was a wait for them.

I got mine in like 5 days. They always answered the phone also when I called, so I had no issues.

MAST has helped me with tech questions very timely, but they also ignored a few e/m's requesting more info on a short block. (416).

MAybe they overlooked it as I'm sure they are MAD BUSY. Maybe they decided to answer e/ms' looking to purchase their 20K engine packages instead.

That right there has always been hit and miss for me. Emails getting answered were few and far between. That's why I just call now.

What's everyones opinion on these heads? Worth the money for my cam...

I think with the heads,bolts, gasket and new injectors I'm around $4200 without labor :eek2:

I would consider Tony Mamo's new heads as well. They look awesome and have always performed well. His customer service is excellent and will talk with you on the phone about any concerns. I'm sure Ed has worked with AFR's before and these are better. I'd at least compare a few sets of heads before making a final decision.

You are talking about the MAST cathedral port heads and not the MAST LS3 small bore heads, correct? If they are what Ed suggests, and he's going to be the one specing the cam, then I wouldn't second guess it.