AFR H/C results.
NOT a good comparison...(AGAIN) Guys...
Trying to even remotely compare my car and this car is a complete waste of oxygen.
But before I go there I would like to say that the results speak for themselves anyway....it's obvious the car feels completely different, not too mention actually knocks down better fuel economy in the process. A heavy GTO is the IDEAL application for all the benefits the AFR 205 has to offer. Also, there is still quite a bit of room for improvement as some of you have pointed out already.
A quick run down of my combination versus his....
FAST 90 / 90 mm TB / 85 mm MAF.....................................add 20
Long tube headers/merge collector/ 3" high flow CAT's etc......add 15
Port match / Re-work exits FAST intake...............................add 4-7
Electric Water Pump.............................................. ...........add 5
.040 Cometic gasket (more CR , better quench).....................add 2-4
Back up cam 3 degrees........................................... ..........add 10
Add 20+ additional hours of dyno time (just to get closer).......add ??
Different dyno facilty........................................... ............. ?????
Now do the math....480 doesn't seem so far away any more does it.
By the way, my 3440 lb. C5 (with me in it) ran 124 MPH at approximately 1500 D/A (it was moving around quite a bit that day)....More math for you guys that like to crunch numbers....That would require every ounce of 480 "SAE" RWHP to get there.
Regards,
Tony M.
PS I forgot to even touch on the fact that the BIGGEST unknown variable in this "comparison" is the fact we are trying to compare results from two completely different drivelines.
Trying to even remotely compare my car and this car is a complete waste of oxygen.
But before I go there I would like to say that the results speak for themselves anyway....it's obvious the car feels completely different, not too mention actually knocks down better fuel economy in the process. A heavy GTO is the IDEAL application for all the benefits the AFR 205 has to offer. Also, there is still quite a bit of room for improvement as some of you have pointed out already.
A quick run down of my combination versus his....
FAST 90 / 90 mm TB / 85 mm MAF.....................................add 20
Long tube headers/merge collector/ 3" high flow CAT's etc......add 15
Port match / Re-work exits FAST intake...............................add 4-7
Electric Water Pump.............................................. ...........add 5
.040 Cometic gasket (more CR , better quench).....................add 2-4
Back up cam 3 degrees........................................... ..........add 10
Add 20+ additional hours of dyno time (just to get closer).......add ??
Different dyno facilty........................................... ............. ?????
Now do the math....480 doesn't seem so far away any more does it.
By the way, my 3440 lb. C5 (with me in it) ran 124 MPH at approximately 1500 D/A (it was moving around quite a bit that day)....More math for you guys that like to crunch numbers....That would require every ounce of 480 "SAE" RWHP to get there.
Regards,
Tony M.
PS I forgot to even touch on the fact that the BIGGEST unknown variable in this "comparison" is the fact we are trying to compare results from two completely different drivelines.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Dec 21, 2004 at 04:12 PM.
Originally Posted by Insomniak
Tony: your rocker arms are stock ratio? or adjusted?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Tony I like the heads and not bashing, just didn't get the same numbers is all. I didn't expect too neither. I do have headers 3" collector and 3"in and out Highflow cats. I do not have the ewp, 90mm fast and no aftermarket exhaust. I did leave some on the table I agree. I will be moving that direction in the future just wanted to see what I would get. I do however think I will never get the 480rwhp though. Add ewp 5, 3" exhaust 10-15, 90mm 15-20, then I would get 448-458. Maybe more maybe less. Please do not thank I am upset or disapointed with your product I am not. My car feels so much better especially in the low to mid range and that is what I wanted.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Tony and you are right about the heads being good for a heavy car it really jumps and no reving to get it to. The gas mileage on the highway is also quite well and maybe about 1-2 mpg better. I will test this on the way to and from work as I drive 140miles round trip a day. I only wanted to see what you could get by doing the minimum of mods and give some more time for the 90mm stuff to get the bugs worked out and the price to maybe get better.
Originally Posted by BIG G
Tony I like the heads and not bashing, just didn't get the same numbers is all. I didn't expect too neither. I do have headers 3" collector and 3"in and out Highflow cats. I do not have the ewp, 90mm fast and no aftermarket exhaust. I did leave some on the table I agree. I will be moving that direction in the future just wanted to see what I would get. I do however think I will never get the 480rwhp though. Add ewp 5, 3" exhaust 10-15, 90mm 15-20, then I would get 448-458. Maybe more maybe less. Please do not thank I am upset or disapointed with your product I am not. My car feels so much better especially in the low to mid range and that is what I wanted.
Congrats on the results and I wasn't "aiming" my response at anyone in particular. Just pointing out that trying to compare my build-up in a C5 and your build-up in a GTO with everything mentioned in my previous post still left on the table is basically a "fruitless" exercise. I also wanted to show that hitting on as many of those "details" as possible CAN and will help you achieve, or at least get closer, to what I did. Also, I provided my recent track results for the benefit of all the "doubting Thomas's" that question the integrity of our chassis dyno results which we have duplicated at more than one dyno facilty.
Enjoy the GTO....I'm sure it is a much more "spirited" ride with the new H/C package.
Tony M.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Thanks Tony and I may have to get those 225cc heads when I get ready to do my big bad 455 big block for the GTO in the future. I will update my results in the future after I do some more mods as has been discussed. I can't waite to see the track results on mine also.
Take care and merry Christmas.
Take care and merry Christmas.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted by Sidewayz 4.6l
VERBALLY 
BY AFR
BY AFR
TECH Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Berkley, MI
I was owned, Thanks for slapping me around Tony.
57 Hp's in the details. It pays to have the very best.
I hate to see an "essentially" (not ideally) correctly built LSX put down 418 though.
I did not know MTI now sold AFR's.
This guy just got 410rwhp/390rwtq --take it to the track.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=970183
57 Hp's in the details. It pays to have the very best.
I hate to see an "essentially" (not ideally) correctly built LSX put down 418 though.
I did not know MTI now sold AFR's.
This guy just got 410rwhp/390rwtq --take it to the track.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=970183
Last edited by Mirek; Dec 21, 2004 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Addl Info
I don't see the car making the same numbers even with the rest of the nitpicky stuff, and it'd be a waste of cash to throw at it because you think your going to reach that goal because his car did. Different cars dyno different numbers. Both have IRS, and although it may be different the horsepower difference probably is very slight if at all if you dynod that number stock.
Grats on the results, I bet the car runs real hard..
Peace,
Josh
Grats on the results, I bet the car runs real hard..
Peace,
Josh
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Mirek...
FYI....That thread you link us to shows another mild AFR car putting down 410 with an A4 it’s not even a 6 speed car which always shows 10-20 more. Also, the tuner states himself that was with timing set up with a nitrous tune (15' timing!) which obviously would have cost him power, yet you are comparing it against an all-motor tune. I think those #'s are also very impressive. How about this, look at what the GTO picked up over baseline (110 HP
) with the new AFR set-up that actually gets better gas mileage....Sounds like something I'd want.
Now if AFR would just get with it and come out with a head for my car!!
C'mon Tony....MAKE IT HAPPEN
FYI....That thread you link us to shows another mild AFR car putting down 410 with an A4 it’s not even a 6 speed car which always shows 10-20 more. Also, the tuner states himself that was with timing set up with a nitrous tune (15' timing!) which obviously would have cost him power, yet you are comparing it against an all-motor tune. I think those #'s are also very impressive. How about this, look at what the GTO picked up over baseline (110 HP
) with the new AFR set-up that actually gets better gas mileage....Sounds like something I'd want.Now if AFR would just get with it and come out with a head for my car!!
C'mon Tony....MAKE IT HAPPEN
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Hey guys this car is fun to drive and pulls like a freight train. I also still have the stock 2" exhaust so with swiching to a 3" I may pick up 10-15rwhp. Who knows, all I know is the car gets great gas mileage, pulls hard from idle no reving like a lot of cammed cars, and can be driven in 6th gear lugging around at 1000rpms. I will post more numbers once I do the 3" exhaust and redyno.
TECH Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Berkley, MI
Yes sir, it is a link to another AFR heads/228 cam car putting down 410.
That is correct.
But as we know there are variables outside of head/cam/shortblock....dyno.
Congrats with the newfound power Big G.
That is correct.
But as we know there are variables outside of head/cam/shortblock....dyno.
Congrats with the newfound power Big G.
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
By the way, my 3440 lb. C5 (with me in it) ran 124 MPH at approximately 1500 D/A (it was moving around quite a bit that day)....More math for you guys that like to crunch numbers....That would require every ounce of 480 "SAE" RWHP to get there.
Not to be disrespectful Tony, but 124mph with 480rwhp isn't all that impressive in a Vette. It doesn't take 480 to run 124 in a Vette (unless it's an automatic).
My Z06 ran 121.2mph with 387rwhp with just headers and a Vortex airbox at Sac raceway.
With only 453/434, I ran it three times 124.8mph and 126.7mph at Sac and 129.1mph at Infineon. This was a fresh 383 with shitty heads that have since been replaced. At that time, I was making about 30rwhp less than your Vette and about the same torque. My race weight is about the same as yours. I'm also running a M6 and not a MN12 with 3.42's. So why are you touting your 124mph trap on an f-body board as some sort of major accomplishment?
When you bolt your 225's on and hit 510RWHP (your goal), PM me and I'll make the trip down to run heads up with you. I'm only making about 490rwhp now, tuned the way I drive it and race it.
I'm not doubting the quality of your heads (I have a set). I'm doubting your dyno numbers until I see a trap speed that reflects them. Here's a link to my first two shakedown runs http://www.sn8k.com/media-misc/TestnTune.wmv (right click save as). As you can see, I can't drive for my life (typical vette owner). Also notice all of the smoke from my previous set of heads (bad seals). That problem was cured when I put the AFR's on.
Last edited by Reboot; Dec 21, 2004 at 09:57 PM.
I also still have the stock 2" exhaust
im just curious why AFR always comes under the gun about dyno numbers when 99% of other h/c setups dont come close to what sponsored shop cars with "essentually" the same package are putting out.
Originally Posted by jrp
im just curious why AFR always comes under the gun about dyno numbers when 99% of other h/c setups dont come close to what sponsored shop cars with "essentually" the same package are putting out.
I think it's all apart of the copy this guys setup game that so many people play on here. 
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville, Florida
You guys are forgetting the driveline mass. What clutch is Tony running? If its a Exedy Twin, thats certainly going to show up as more power on a dyno jet. Its lighter AND smaller diameter.
Big G, do you have the AL flywheel for your spec 3? What about the stock catback, are those restrictive?
What gets me is that a lot of these AFR 205cc cars don't really seem to be making any more low end or midrange compared to cars with similar peak HP.
OT, but does anyone have a link to a DA calculator? I am wondering what the equivalent SAE correction factor would be for a 1500 DA. I have always used SAE correction to judge the weather conditions.
BTW, I don't know how you guys get your Vettes so heavy. Does your Z06 have an iron block, Reboot? My FRC weighed in at 3100lbs with a half tank of gas, Z06 muffers and a 20lb trailer hitch.
Big G, do you have the AL flywheel for your spec 3? What about the stock catback, are those restrictive?
What gets me is that a lot of these AFR 205cc cars don't really seem to be making any more low end or midrange compared to cars with similar peak HP.
OT, but does anyone have a link to a DA calculator? I am wondering what the equivalent SAE correction factor would be for a 1500 DA. I have always used SAE correction to judge the weather conditions.
BTW, I don't know how you guys get your Vettes so heavy. Does your Z06 have an iron block, Reboot? My FRC weighed in at 3100lbs with a half tank of gas, Z06 muffers and a 20lb trailer hitch.