GMHTP LS2 Head Shootout!!
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From: NC, Charlotte / SC, RockHill
I am very dissapointed that many ppl here calling the TFSs as a dishonest head or all that crap. its proven head as the AFR was proven for years. AFR with all respect is a good peice of work and no body can doubt that . our problem here that there r many guys out there who r infulenced by the stereotype that the best head is the AFR. the TFS has out proven the AFR and I think Maaaxbooost had cleared things up
TFS is the best head out there. I don't see any low super low end torque numbers either for AFR heads although they had the advantage of smaller runners 205 Vs 215.
i know that AFR had less compression i would assume less by .3 - .4 compression ratio and also trying to compensate for that by using a general rule of that an increase of 1 point in compression ratio = and increase of 4% in power. well that said i think the low end AFR thing is all hype.
well if you found out that trickflow was hand blended then look at this
"Of special note, we did run the AFR head richer and leaner at the request of AFR" They didn't do that to all the heads.
well i don't know about TFS heads but if all thair heads are hand blended then that would be really nice. i just hope they didn't blend those heads for the test.
Brian nice job on those heads and can't wait to see results of 225cc heads.
i know that AFR had less compression i would assume less by .3 - .4 compression ratio and also trying to compensate for that by using a general rule of that an increase of 1 point in compression ratio = and increase of 4% in power. well that said i think the low end AFR thing is all hype.
well if you found out that trickflow was hand blended then look at this
"Of special note, we did run the AFR head richer and leaner at the request of AFR" They didn't do that to all the heads.
well i don't know about TFS heads but if all thair heads are hand blended then that would be really nice. i just hope they didn't blend those heads for the test.
Brian nice job on those heads and can't wait to see results of 225cc heads.
AFR's for the win! i bolted my heads on, and i was done.
My ls1 twin turbo vette made 700 at the wheels with pump gas (93 octane) on a 348 ci ls1 with afr 225's
before the turbo setup, my ls1 vette puts 460 to the ground with afr 205 heads, cam, fast intake, headers.
i had to do zero modifications. werent hand finished. no clearancing. nada.
My ls1 twin turbo vette made 700 at the wheels with pump gas (93 octane) on a 348 ci ls1 with afr 225's
before the turbo setup, my ls1 vette puts 460 to the ground with afr 205 heads, cam, fast intake, headers.
i had to do zero modifications. werent hand finished. no clearancing. nada.
Originally Posted by sscam68
I found that interesting as well.
BTW Thanks for the clarification TEA thats what I was thinking was the case.... lord know magazine guys don't understand what happens with producing anything other than a story.
Bret
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Thank God someone else here even understands what that means....
BTW Thanks for the clarification TEA thats what I was thinking was the case.... lord know magazine guys don't understand what happens with producing anything other than a story.
Bret
BTW Thanks for the clarification TEA thats what I was thinking was the case.... lord know magazine guys don't understand what happens with producing anything other than a story.
Bret
Most mags don't even publish that information. I was pretty shocked to see it to be quite honest.
I was going to put it all in an excel spreadsheet and post up but I was having some trouble getting power, torque and BSFC all on one plot with excel. I didn't fiddle with it much because I had to get back to work.
I've read this today. (the article in the mag)... I also noticed that the TQ curve w/ the TF heads was a bit smoother. It had a drop in TQ at lower R's.. the TF heads seem to have the smoother transition.
I've been researching htese heads fro about a month or so. I'll prolly give them a try when I get the $$$. They worked wonders for the SB Mustang crew.
I've been researching htese heads fro about a month or so. I'll prolly give them a try when I get the $$$. They worked wonders for the SB Mustang crew.
Originally Posted by SScam68
Yep, fuel consumption/power output. Just a measure of engine efficiency. TFS heads made more power with less fuel by ~%5
Most mags don't even publish that information. I was pretty shocked to see it to be quite honest.
I was going to put it all in an excel spreadsheet and post up but I was having some trouble getting power, torque and BSFC all on one plot with excel. I didn't fiddle with it much because I had to get back to work.
Most mags don't even publish that information. I was pretty shocked to see it to be quite honest.
I was going to put it all in an excel spreadsheet and post up but I was having some trouble getting power, torque and BSFC all on one plot with excel. I didn't fiddle with it much because I had to get back to work.
Either way more data than normal and enough to make some guesses at what head is doing the best.
Bret
The cause of the different BSFC where likely caused by differences in compression ratios (clearance volume) which directly affects residual gas left over in the cylinder/intake after the exhaust valve closes.
BSFC is also a product of combustion effeciency.
I honestly was a bit suprized how close the results where.
BSFC is also a product of combustion effeciency.
I honestly was a bit suprized how close the results where.
I have the Livernoise Stage III's on a 395ci stroker w/ a mild cam (231/236 .610/.620)and couldn't be happier! They are a great deal even with upgraded springs. And my car pulls hard from 2800-6800!
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what is the real difference between the AFR, TFS, and Livernois on the same car...maybe a tenth and 1-2 mph in the quarter...on a certain day? They are all nice heads, period. for the price, the Livernois are great, the AFR"s are proven again and again, and the TFS seems to have some nice new tehnology.
Bench racing the heads is silly, any of these on your car will make good power.
SDB
Bench racing the heads is silly, any of these on your car will make good power.
SDB
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
Originally Posted by SDB
what is the real difference between the AFR, TFS, and Livernois on the same car...maybe a tenth and 1-2 mph in the quarter...on a certain day? They are all nice heads, period. for the price, the Livernois are great, the AFR"s are proven again and again, and the TFS seems to have some nice new tehnology.
Bench racing the heads is silly, any of these on your car will make good power.
SDB
Bench racing the heads is silly, any of these on your car will make good power.
SDB
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 277
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From: Town near you
After reading the articles.I would have liked to see the PRC heads thrown in the mix also.They made great power on a smaller motor (ls1 vs. ls2).I believe they would have outpowered the big dogs for less money.
Originally Posted by 2000PewterZ28
After reading the articles.I would have liked to see the PRC heads thrown in the mix also.They made great power on a smaller motor (ls1 vs. ls2).I believe they would have outpowered the big dogs for less money.
They sure as hell would have been the best bang for the buck if you are on a tight budget.
Just read the write up and now I'm more confused. I didn't see a clear cut winner in the whole bunch, just a whole bunch of nice working parts at about the same price.
I'm really waiting for the L92 details.
I'm really waiting for the L92 details.
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 277
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From: Town near you
Originally Posted by Louie83
If you think they would have outpowered TFS and AFR then you are living in lala land.
They sure as hell would have been the best bang for the buck if you are on a tight budget.
They sure as hell would have been the best bang for the buck if you are on a tight budget.
I think they could outpower AFR and TFS.Their real world flow numbers are just as good.We'll never know unless there is an unbiased test on the same car.
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 277
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From: Town near you
Originally Posted by N4cer
Stage for stage, dollar for dollar, I'd say they're right on track with the Livernois heads. But the Livernois claim a smaller intake runner.
Originally Posted by 2000PewterZ28
I think they could outpower AFR and TFS.Their real world flow numbers are just as good.We'll never know unless there is an unbiased test on the same car.
your drunk.. they might do as well but not out power its not about flow #s it about matching the cam and heads..homework
Originally Posted by 2000PewterZ28
The key word is claim!PRC has an all new LS6 head.It specs out at 230cc.That is about as small as you can go and still have real good flow numbers.
Bret
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Pfff, I KNOW a 2.00" valve, 221cc port that will smoke about anything else out there on the bench, dyno or track so yes you can get much smaller if you know WTF you are doing. Thank god these things aren't out on street cars cause then one of these places would have their new "port design" then.
Bret
Bret
and i wish everybody would realize it's not just about flow nos.that makes a good head....
Originally Posted by 2000PewterZ28
The key word is claim!PRC has an all new LS6 head.It specs out at 230cc.That is about as small as you can go and still have real good flow numbers.